There was another guy on here did an 8.8 conversion if I recall
Ford Barra conversion in 242 / 240
Have you ever done an 8.8 conversion? There are many hidden costs and issues with integration if you are going to do it properly.Vee_Que;125826 wroteThey are all expensive options to make a Volvo diff to survive. They are just not built big enough and the cost of an lsd is basically the cost of converting to an 8.8.
Axles are weak on the Volvo diff with torque and grip too.
Here are some notes from my 8.8 conversion:
- Custom panhard rod/mounts needed as all Volvo shape items will rub rear cover
- Explorer braking system has MUCH greater caliper force than the Volvo calipers. Brake balance way off.
- Volvo brake master cylinder size/volume not compatible with the Ford Caliper for proper operation/pedal feel
- Stud pattern changes from 5x108 to 5x114.3
- Rear track is altered, impacting wheel offset
- Handbrake cable setup is different, needs adapting
- Need adjustable torque rods to correct pinion angle
- Need matching driveshaft flange for diff pinion
- Hard brake lines need to be customised
- Hard brake line retainer tabs need to be welded on
- Flexible Ford brake caliper hose mounts need mods to clear Volvo rear springs
At this point you still only have a second hand diff assy with a fair few km's on it. Very likely will need rotors, pads, wheel bearings and a new LSD clutch pack kit at a minimum. Then you have the actual shortening/cutting/welding of the diff. Grinding the brackets/mounts off the Volvo diff. Welding onto the Ford diff etc.
No comparison to bolting in an LSD/stronger centre in terms of both cost and time.
Well im happy i found this forum as this information is so helpful
- Edited
Why has no one mentioned these details before? There are other 8.8s for sale converted.
Stud pattern change and using two short axles and shortening gets the track width and stud pattern issue.
Flange can be an easy one with the right tailshaft or since your doing a new gearbox, not a huge hassle to do at the same time.
Feel and operation is subjective.
Hard lines are easy.
If you can do a lot of the welding, it's still cheaper than the 2k needed to make a Volvo diff survive a turbo barra motor.
An lsd alone is $1000 and you will need discs for most old cars unless you already did them recently. A locker is a compromise to keep the stock parts. But the axles are still weak and stronger ones seriously are not cheap. On top of that the track is considered narrow on a 240 too so it's a bonus to gain a few inches.
An lsd rebuild kit is $150usd for an 8.8 last I checked so it still can be cost effective.
Stud pattern change and using two short axles and shortening gets the track width and stud pattern issue.
Flange can be an easy one with the right tailshaft or since your doing a new gearbox, not a huge hassle to do at the same time.
Feel and operation is subjective.
Hard lines are easy.
If you can do a lot of the welding, it's still cheaper than the 2k needed to make a Volvo diff survive a turbo barra motor.
An lsd alone is $1000 and you will need discs for most old cars unless you already did them recently. A locker is a compromise to keep the stock parts. But the axles are still weak and stronger ones seriously are not cheap. On top of that the track is considered narrow on a 240 too so it's a bonus to gain a few inches.
An lsd rebuild kit is $150usd for an 8.8 last I checked so it still can be cost effective.
@Vee_Que
Alex, you gloss over details when it suits your argument in some posts, then in other posts you henpeck forum members over meaningless details. You are logically inconsistent. Now you have added a stud pattern change to the list of jobs to do (cost), which by the way is not legal, unless you are using axle blanks, from Moser or similar which are very expensive.
The 240 Master Cylinder is simply not up to the job. It's a stepped bore design and way too small. It was never designed to move the volume of fluid to stop a near two tonne vehicle with large-piston brake calipers. Not a subjective issue. The Front brakes will need to be upgraded at the same time as the 8.8 is put in. Do the math and work it out for yourself and stop talking nonsense.
Nobody is arguing that an 8.8 is not better suited to a Turbo Barra over a 240 diff. Your argument was the cost of dropping an LSD in a Volvo is basically the cost of converting to an 8.8. This is absolute nonsense if you consider all aspects of the vehicle impacted by the axle swap.
Alex, you gloss over details when it suits your argument in some posts, then in other posts you henpeck forum members over meaningless details. You are logically inconsistent. Now you have added a stud pattern change to the list of jobs to do (cost), which by the way is not legal, unless you are using axle blanks, from Moser or similar which are very expensive.
The 240 Master Cylinder is simply not up to the job. It's a stepped bore design and way too small. It was never designed to move the volume of fluid to stop a near two tonne vehicle with large-piston brake calipers. Not a subjective issue. The Front brakes will need to be upgraded at the same time as the 8.8 is put in. Do the math and work it out for yourself and stop talking nonsense.
Nobody is arguing that an 8.8 is not better suited to a Turbo Barra over a 240 diff. Your argument was the cost of dropping an LSD in a Volvo is basically the cost of converting to an 8.8. This is absolute nonsense if you consider all aspects of the vehicle impacted by the axle swap.
Plenty of engineered hot rods have redrilled axles, am I missing something with that? Serious question. Alternatively, changing the fronts to ford is an option.
With a basic breakdown of costs when including a master cylinder, given other people have not done rx7 brakes with an 8.8, let alone lexus brakes, and knowing there are ways around proportion adjustment that you may not have done to the full extent, there is always the option to go smaller on the Explorer brakes given they are ford units.
It will not be cheaper than a true track lsd (800) that is basically the only lsd option. Locking centres are not in the picture in this instance.
However, that doesn't stop the axles from snapping as they do with increased power.
And I will continue to be inconsistent. It makes it fun.
With a basic breakdown of costs when including a master cylinder, given other people have not done rx7 brakes with an 8.8, let alone lexus brakes, and knowing there are ways around proportion adjustment that you may not have done to the full extent, there is always the option to go smaller on the Explorer brakes given they are ford units.
It will not be cheaper than a true track lsd (800) that is basically the only lsd option. Locking centres are not in the picture in this instance.
However, that doesn't stop the axles from snapping as they do with increased power.
And I will continue to be inconsistent. It makes it fun.
The key point here is that whichever way you go with an 8.8, there are all sorts of integration issues to resolve, be it track width, stud pattern, hand-brake, plumbing, master cylinder, driveshaft, brake balance, suspension and more. Just bolting in an 8.8 without attending to all these issues will make the car drive considerably worse than it ever did.
You cannot simply 'dial out' the rear bias with an 8.8 rear end in a 240. The reason is that the 8.8 caliper has almost 90% of the front Volvo caliper (or RX-7) clamping force. Just about every car ever made is setup with a rear brake clamping force of around 50% compared to the front clamping force.
The Volvo master cylinder further complicates matters with it's very small split 22/15.8mm bore, compared to a Ford unit with it's 27mm bore. No comparison. The Volvo item has to be binned.
The Volvo parts are powerful enough for a stock weight car with skinny, small diameter tyres, but as soon as you switch to modern rubber which is wider and larger in diameter, the increased amount of traction available changes everything in terms of brakes. Why you would want to then change back to a smaller brake setup on the 8.8 is beyond me.
You cannot simply 'dial out' the rear bias with an 8.8 rear end in a 240. The reason is that the 8.8 caliper has almost 90% of the front Volvo caliper (or RX-7) clamping force. Just about every car ever made is setup with a rear brake clamping force of around 50% compared to the front clamping force.
The Volvo master cylinder further complicates matters with it's very small split 22/15.8mm bore, compared to a Ford unit with it's 27mm bore. No comparison. The Volvo item has to be binned.
The Volvo parts are powerful enough for a stock weight car with skinny, small diameter tyres, but as soon as you switch to modern rubber which is wider and larger in diameter, the increased amount of traction available changes everything in terms of brakes. Why you would want to then change back to a smaller brake setup on the 8.8 is beyond me.
Volvo brakes are used by lots on lots of other cars also, for the age and size they are good brakes. Of course going to massive brakes is an option, it also makes it harder to use smaller wheels.
Going to a smaller Caliper may not be a hard option, an ea-ef falcon one may fit for instance, which gains an inbuilt handbrake and it's designed for a car similar in weight to a 240.
As I don't own a 240, I didn't realise they had different sizes. But having the stepped master is a form of brake bias as I understand hydraulics, so the pedal feel would be soft going so much bigger, come to think of it, most ford's is driven are a soft brake feel. So to me, if I had to use an 8.8 on a 240, and another Caliper couldn't easily be used, something in between may be more suitable for more positive brake feel.
Of course brake booster strength plays a part and most parts on a 30 year old 240 are well overdue for a rebuild or replacement anyway.
Yes it is worth considering the whole lot, why not do a full conversion guide so there is less guess work in how people go about doing one? Because there are no guides, it's literally just posts of people around of finished jobs etc.
I can still stand by track width and driveshaft replacement and even stud pattern as not being a massive issue, faced by with a gearbox swap, or a desire to have wider tyres anyway.
Going to a smaller Caliper may not be a hard option, an ea-ef falcon one may fit for instance, which gains an inbuilt handbrake and it's designed for a car similar in weight to a 240.
As I don't own a 240, I didn't realise they had different sizes. But having the stepped master is a form of brake bias as I understand hydraulics, so the pedal feel would be soft going so much bigger, come to think of it, most ford's is driven are a soft brake feel. So to me, if I had to use an 8.8 on a 240, and another Caliper couldn't easily be used, something in between may be more suitable for more positive brake feel.
Of course brake booster strength plays a part and most parts on a 30 year old 240 are well overdue for a rebuild or replacement anyway.
Yes it is worth considering the whole lot, why not do a full conversion guide so there is less guess work in how people go about doing one? Because there are no guides, it's literally just posts of people around of finished jobs etc.
I can still stand by track width and driveshaft replacement and even stud pattern as not being a massive issue, faced by with a gearbox swap, or a desire to have wider tyres anyway.
Agreed, the stock 240 brakes are an excellent system as a whole, but not so much when you start bolting on bigger caliper pistons, bigger wheels, bigger tyres, more weight etc. A Hyundai i30 has more powerful brakes than a Volvo 240 - albeit pretty crude compared to a 240... but that does put a 240 braking system in context if someone is thinking about turbo Barra power.
Would make for a good tow car thoughAshDVS;101252 wrote65kg is quite a lot of weight, particularly if you're putting a lump of it forward of the centreline of the front 'axle'.rodong;101233 wroteI would of thought with good suspension 65kg approx heavier in engine weight shouldn't be that much of a difference in performance?
Can anyone confirm the curb weight for a 1980 242
1290kg or 1320kg or 1338kg or +?
Hoping its 1338kg for mod plate reasons....
How much of an impact it'll have will vary depending on where you position it.
The Ford I6 is long and tall, the additional length and mass needs to go somewhere.
It'll never be as nimble or as happy to change direction as the car would be with the B2xx in it, but maybe that isn't too important and the increase in power and the desire to venture the road not traveled has it's appeal.
Working out spring rates, etc will be best achieved with a set of race scales.
If you haven't got access to a set, you could get in the ballpark with some guesstimation.
Drop me an email if you want to bounce some ideas around in this regard.
Just saying... but if I was sinking the money into engineering and everything for a motor swap into a 240... doing new brakes is pretty much a free addition so I can't imagine not doing a serious brake upgrade....alphax;125913 wrote@Vee_Que
Alex, you gloss over details when it suits your argument in some posts, then in other posts you henpeck forum members over meaningless details. You are logically inconsistent. Now you have added a stud pattern change to the list of jobs to do (cost), which by the way is not legal, unless you are using axle blanks, from Moser or similar which are very expensive.
The 240 Master Cylinder is simply not up to the job. It's a stepped bore design and way too small. It was never designed to move the volume of fluid to stop a near two tonne vehicle with large-piston brake calipers. Not a subjective issue. The Front brakes will need to be upgraded at the same time as the 8.8 is put in. Do the math and work it out for yourself and stop talking nonsense.
Nobody is arguing that an 8.8 is not better suited to a Turbo Barra over a 240 diff. Your argument was the cost of dropping an LSD in a Volvo is basically the cost of converting to an 8.8. This is absolute nonsense if you consider all aspects of the vehicle impacted by the axle swap.
If you exclude costs of brakes and rimps.. the conversion price becomes a bit closer in total cost for the car...
5 years later
Samman88 They fit
Hey samman88, i know this was forever ago but what mounts did you use for the engine? This is the exact set up im working towards with my 240 any advice?
10 months later
Has anyone considered a VS Commodore engine swap?