Ford Barra conversion in 242 / 240

rodong · 2017-03-05T00:53:38+00:00

It should fit... Interested to see the results

brando_240gl

I am looking at doing this conversion will take some photos and measurements this arvo i will post it up here.

I have a ba falcon and my volvo side by side so good time to check and i have lined up a fg rear turbo sump and pickup so if it won't ruin the handling with the motor being too far forward of the front wheels im keen.

Might even modify the firewall so the motor can sit back further we will see

Vee_Que

Modifying the firewall is a good way to not have a heater box. There is no room behind it.

brando_240gl

Yep that's good to know haha

So i got 800mm from the edge of where the gearbox bolts up to the front of the harmonic balancer that's only rough but gives you a good idea on the length of the motor.

So 800mm on the volvo from the firewall to the radiator shroud

brando_240gl

But after checking the length (roughly) from the middle of the strut tower on the falcon then the volvo i found the motor wouldn't sit any further forward in the volvo as it does in the falcon.

After looking at this it might not ruin the handling as i thought it might

Klaptrap24

brando_240gl;125761 wroteBut after checking the length (roughly) from the middle of the strut tower on the falcon then the volvo i found the motor wouldn't sit any further forward in the volvo as it does in the falcon.

After looking at this it might not ruin the handling as i thought it might

If you were leaving the firewall and moving the radiator section forward wouldn't that put a lot more weight over the front wheels? Or were you modifying the firewall?

brando_240gl

Klaptrap24;125767 wrote
brando_240gl;125761 wroteBut after checking the length (roughly) from the middle of the strut tower on the falcon then the volvo i found the motor wouldn't sit any further forward in the volvo as it does in the falcon.

After looking at this it might not ruin the handling as i thought it might
If you were leaving the firewall and moving the radiator section forward wouldn't that put a lot more weight over the front wheels? Or were you modifying the firewall?

Yes there will be more weight than the b230 but it is not as bad as i first thought, i will try do something with the firewall but looking at how the engine will sit it might not be needed we will see haha

brando_240gl

Oh radiator location doesn't need too change j will start a build thread and have a go see what i can do

Vee_Que

Push the radiator forward. Is this going to be na?

brando_240gl

Na for now just makes it happen quicker ill see how it goes and when i want ill drop a fg turbo motor in it with the stronger gearbox.

Also keeping in mind i will have to put a stronger diff in the back when i decide to put the turbo motor in

Vee_Que

Ford Explorer 8.8 diffs are a common swap and cheap to get from the self serve wreckers.

Plenty of power can still be made with an au sohc motor turbod too.

brando_240gl

Yeah i don't doubt it au motors are good i just prefer doing the barra, the explorer diff conversion seems to be real popular but what can you do with the volvo diffs to strengthen them?

carnut1100

Truetrac centre, Detroit locker, spool etc are all stronger than the original open diff, but all can be broken with enough right foot.

Vee_Que

They are all expensive options to make a Volvo diff to survive. They are just not built big enough and the cost of an lsd is basically the cost of converting to an 8.8.

Axles are weak on the Volvo diff with torque and grip too.

jamesinc

There was another guy on here did an 8.8 conversion if I recall

alphax

Vee_Que;125826 wroteThey are all expensive options to make a Volvo diff to survive. They are just not built big enough and the cost of an lsd is basically the cost of converting to an 8.8.

Axles are weak on the Volvo diff with torque and grip too.

Have you ever done an 8.8 conversion? There are many hidden costs and issues with integration if you are going to do it properly.

Here are some notes from my 8.8 conversion:

- Custom panhard rod/mounts needed as all Volvo shape items will rub rear cover
- Explorer braking system has MUCH greater caliper force than the Volvo calipers. Brake balance way off.
- Volvo brake master cylinder size/volume not compatible with the Ford Caliper for proper operation/pedal feel
- Stud pattern changes from 5x108 to 5x114.3
- Rear track is altered, impacting wheel offset
- Handbrake cable setup is different, needs adapting
- Need adjustable torque rods to correct pinion angle
- Need matching driveshaft flange for diff pinion
- Hard brake lines need to be customised
- Hard brake line retainer tabs need to be welded on
- Flexible Ford brake caliper hose mounts need mods to clear Volvo rear springs

At this point you still only have a second hand diff assy with a fair few km's on it. Very likely will need rotors, pads, wheel bearings and a new LSD clutch pack kit at a minimum. Then you have the actual shortening/cutting/welding of the diff. Grinding the brackets/mounts off the Volvo diff. Welding onto the Ford diff etc.

No comparison to bolting in an LSD/stronger centre in terms of both cost and time.

brando_240gl

Well im happy i found this forum as this information is so helpful

Vee_Que

Why has no one mentioned these details before? There are other 8.8s for sale converted.

Stud pattern change and using two short axles and shortening gets the track width and stud pattern issue.

Flange can be an easy one with the right tailshaft or since your doing a new gearbox, not a huge hassle to do at the same time.

Feel and operation is subjective.

Hard lines are easy.

If you can do a lot of the welding, it's still cheaper than the 2k needed to make a Volvo diff survive a turbo barra motor.

An lsd alone is $1000 and you will need discs for most old cars unless you already did them recently. A locker is a compromise to keep the stock parts. But the axles are still weak and stronger ones seriously are not cheap. On top of that the track is considered narrow on a 240 too so it's a bonus to gain a few inches.

An lsd rebuild kit is $150usd for an 8.8 last I checked so it still can be cost effective.

alphax

@Vee_Que

Alex, you gloss over details when it suits your argument in some posts, then in other posts you henpeck forum members over meaningless details. You are logically inconsistent. Now you have added a stud pattern change to the list of jobs to do (cost), which by the way is not legal, unless you are using axle blanks, from Moser or similar which are very expensive.

The 240 Master Cylinder is simply not up to the job. It's a stepped bore design and way too small. It was never designed to move the volume of fluid to stop a near two tonne vehicle with large-piston brake calipers. Not a subjective issue. The Front brakes will need to be upgraded at the same time as the 8.8 is put in. Do the math and work it out for yourself and stop talking nonsense.

Nobody is arguing that an 8.8 is not better suited to a Turbo Barra over a 240 diff. Your argument was the cost of dropping an LSD in a Volvo is basically the cost of converting to an 8.8. This is absolute nonsense if you consider all aspects of the vehicle impacted by the axle swap.

Vee_Que

Plenty of engineered hot rods have redrilled axles, am I missing something with that? Serious question. Alternatively, changing the fronts to ford is an option.

With a basic breakdown of costs when including a master cylinder, given other people have not done rx7 brakes with an 8.8, let alone lexus brakes, and knowing there are ways around proportion adjustment that you may not have done to the full extent, there is always the option to go smaller on the Explorer brakes given they are ford units.

It will not be cheaper than a true track lsd (800) that is basically the only lsd option. Locking centres are not in the picture in this instance.

However, that doesn't stop the axles from snapping as they do with increased power.

And I will continue to be inconsistent. It makes it fun.

alphax

The key point here is that whichever way you go with an 8.8, there are all sorts of integration issues to resolve, be it track width, stud pattern, hand-brake, plumbing, master cylinder, driveshaft, brake balance, suspension and more. Just bolting in an 8.8 without attending to all these issues will make the car drive considerably worse than it ever did.

You cannot simply 'dial out' the rear bias with an 8.8 rear end in a 240. The reason is that the 8.8 caliper has almost 90% of the front Volvo caliper (or RX-7) clamping force. Just about every car ever made is setup with a rear brake clamping force of around 50% compared to the front clamping force.

The Volvo master cylinder further complicates matters with it's very small split 22/15.8mm bore, compared to a Ford unit with it's 27mm bore. No comparison. The Volvo item has to be binned.

The Volvo parts are powerful enough for a stock weight car with skinny, small diameter tyres, but as soon as you switch to modern rubber which is wider and larger in diameter, the increased amount of traction available changes everything in terms of brakes. Why you would want to then change back to a smaller brake setup on the 8.8 is beyond me.

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