240 Turbo Conversion

Parryana

I have tried to research and I just get confused with everything out there. So hopefully you can help me here.

Situation: I have 242 running a B23F with LH2.2. I have a B23FT donor motor with no ECU.

Question: Could I install the B23FT with the existing ECU and run a manual boost controller? Or do I need to source a Turbo ECU and AFM?

Any help is appreciated.

ramrod

Yes you do need a turbo ECU and ignition ECU (called EZK).

The non turbo parts won’t like the fact there is now a turbo on the engine

Major Ledfoot

Short answer is - no, you'll need a turbo-type ECU and spark module. B23FT weren't seen in Australia. B23ET as seen in OZ in the mid-1980s 760 turbos used Bosch Motronic but a different box to the US.

Turbo engines went through several progressions -

R-Sport kits (Volvo Cup 240s with blow-thru carb, early 1980s) - B21
K-Jet turbo (240 from 1981) - B21
Motronic turbo (early 760T and early 740T) B23ET; B23FT
LH 2.2 turbo (740T -1990 / 760T 1986-88) B230ET/FT centre thrust & K block from 88 (some with weak rods)
LH 2.4 turbo (760T USA 1989+) B230ET/FT K block
LH 2.4 turbo (940 turbo) K block, and L block from 92

If you want something fuss free, I'd suggest the following spec -

start with a solid 1993+ B230 engine as a base (why? 13mm rods & big main bearings are guaranteed)
90+ turbo manifold
change injection system over to LH 2.4

A KG Trimning cam and a slightly bigger turbo will give good reliable power day in, day out without (unreasonably) busting the bank to build it and live with it.

I'd avoid LH 2.2 turbo as it lacks good knock control, doesn't have electronic timing, and diagnostics aren't brilliant, but YMMV. OTOH, LH 2.4 out of the box has good knock control, plus electronically -controlled timing and pretty good diagnostics (for the 20th century system it is) plus a wide selection of aftermarket chips are available.

Also, many of the factory-built LH 2.2 turbo engines had the weak rods and small main bearings with #3 in the middle being the thrust bearing.

But okay, you have a B23 based engine - if you want to stick with that, you might be better off switching to an aftermarket ECU and system. I wouldn't put LH 2.2. on it, a B23 deserves better than that. B23 bottom ends are quite strong.

How crazy do you want to go?

Parryana

Major Ledfoot thank you. The donor motor is an 87 block from a 740, yes I was aiming for an aftermarket ECU originally but was thinking of an easier way just to have things running and then transition to the aftermarket ECU. I do not want anything crazy just a little bit more power, need to maintain the original overdrive box as then things will get expensive and overcapitalizing.

Forg

A decent aftermarket ECU can likely be had for a few hundred more dollars than a usable 40yo factory turbo ECU … it depends on your budget I guess.

One thing that occurs to me … the sensors on that turbo motor are 40 years old. I don’t know whether testing is something that’s easy or inexpensive to do, but each sensor’s likely going to cost around the $50 to $100 mark to replace, so it’d be good to know whether & how to do that testing in order to know what you’re up for. My project had a different goal to yours & I bought new everything to do with engine management; and my recollection from 20 years ago was around $1k or more in just wiring & sensors, and stuff’s more exxy now (which I mention just to say it’s likely worth checking the bits you’ve got).

PS. If it’s a 1987 engine from an AU spec car it’s a B230FT.

PPS. A boost controller is likely not worth it given your intention to switch to an aftermarket ECU at a later time. Even a basic aftermarket ECU will be able to control the boost valve itself, and the factory ECU’s don’t control the boost at all; they just rely on the wastegate-spring on the turbo to do that. Having said that, you can use a boost controller with the factory ECU to good purpose; but I’d suggest getting it running before deciding whether you want to do that next. 🙂

Parryana

Forg i would replace all sensors when going to an aftermarket ECU. I removed an old Haltech and loom from my race car when I went to EMtron. I considered using that, but I worry about no knock control.

Forg

Can the Haltech handle a knock sensor input? I ask because later B230FT’s had knock sensors, you can likely bolt one directly to your engine.

Parryana

Forg E6X has no knock input, I might splurge on another EMtron, so good to use and transformed the race car and has dual knock inputs

Major Ledfoot

Parryana - Just had a look at the Emtron SL boxes and they're quite nice with lots of features, but not exactly bargain priced. For the price of the ECU, you could likely pick up all the LH 2.4 turbo boxes and bits, replace the old sensors, fit a brand new harness, and still have change left over. That'd be my budget option... if not planning an aftermarket ECU later.

Using something like the SL series, looks like there's plenty of scope there to really Go To Town on the engine if you want, but IIRC you want to keep the M46. Given that, it's tempting to say the Emtron is 'overkill', but it seems to me the SL series has all you need and more, plus you're familiar with how Emtrons work.... and as your goal is for an aftermarket ECU, IMHO you might as well skip the interim phase.

Things to consider.

Forg

I don't know the EMtron at all, but from memory E6X is a Really Long Time Ago? Probably really old if it doesn't have inputs that can deal with a knock sensor (as I said - I don't know any Haltech let along the E6X - but it may not be a "knock sensor input", you may be expected to use an input-channel which can accept the voltage or waveform generated by the knock sensor & tune retard based on that input).

But if you know the EMtron it may be simpler to go with what you know! 🙂 I found that with my MoTeC, going from a 1993-spec to a 2013-spec the software was COMPLETELY different & yet the ways it does things is all very similar. 🙂

Forg

How reliable are the LH 2.4 boxen?

I know it wasn't a super uncommon thing to need to replace the LH 2.2 boxes, 20-ish years ago when they were only 20-ish years old (know two people who'd bought early B230F 240's new so the ~$1500 to get the dealer to replace the ECU at about 15-20 years of old wasn't quite as shocking as it would've been to me who was driving a B23E 244GLE which was worth about $1500 🙂), are the 2.4's that much more long-lived?

Major Ledfoot

Pink label LH 2.4 ECUs used on NA cars suffered from failures of the hybrid circuit used to drive the fuel pumps. Some were returned and repaired (I think I still have one in the shed from a 740 that has a repair label on it).

The white labeled ECUs with the same Bosch number didn't fail that way. (Can't be bothered looking up that number right now, but it's common knowledge - see cleanflametrap's site).

The turbo LH 2.4 ECUs have been pretty reliable in my experience. They certainly last longer than heater cores and blower motors.....

Parryana

How obtainable are all the LH2.4 stuff? Yes the Emtron is pricey but also has potential if I get bored and run into money later on. This car is a keeper long term so won't go to waste. I do want to do tarmac rallies, I did embarrass a few cars at last years event with the NA LH2.2

Major Ledfoot

Most LH 2.4 ECUs and EZ-116K ignition modules are obtainable either here or via TurboBricks. It's claimed the later ECUs are the best of the bunch, but those cars never made to the OZ market. The Bosch part numbers ending in 9xx are the pick of the bunch, but beware of immobilisers and EGR. The low pressure turbos towards the end of RWD production used the same ECU/EZ-K combo as the high pressure turbos - only difference in the setup was the wastegate spring.

The NA and turbo LH 2.4 air mass meters are the same, as are most of the other sensors - except notably the exhaust sensor. Broadly speaking, injectors are different (of course) and are different impedances to NA from factory. A series resistor pack is usually added to the factory turbo injectors, but can be eliminated if you use 850-type high impedance injectors.

This is probably the best easy guide to ECUs.
http://www.nuceng.ca/bill/volvo/database/ecu.htm

This is a little something I cooked up to match EZ-116Ks to LH 2.4 ECUs.
https://ozvolvo.org/d/12869-12869

It's worth reading up on Slowbrick's build thread on here - he started with 2.2 turbo and eventually went 2.4 and developed a very good setup.

242GT

Where abouts are you Parryana

Parryana

242GT inner west Sydney

242GT

Your welcome to come and check how the turbo set up was done on my 242GT

Slowbrick

Hey Parry,
Ive done both LH2.2 and LH2.4 variants of 240 turbos. The LH2.2 setup was the first one I did back in 2011. It was a B230FX and I bought a 740 turbo donor car and @VolvoHordz and @Philia_Bear helped me swap it all over. By all accounts it was pretty reliable and I put alot of kms on that setup. It was initially running a 12b and then eventually a 15g. I ran ~12psi of boost and aside of the boost onset knock which ALL LH boxes will do, it made good power.

The second is the 245L that I still have which was a Kjet car that I installed LH2.4 into to support the turbo components. It is running a B23ET that I got from @Spac . Between the two, id say there is minimal difference between the two when driving. LH2.4 is "smarter" than 2.2 and will learn as you drive it to adjust the maps to suit your driving style. LH2.2 goes full rich when you come into boost.

If I can remember, 2.2 uses the knock sensor + MAF to determine when you are on boost. When it sees knock when it adds fuel to stop that knocking. 2.4 can adjust its timing advance so will use a combination of fuel and advance to manage boost.

If I were to be building a car 240 turbo today I would use an aftermarket system. Both LH systems are pretty antique now and the cost of an aftermarket system is pretty approachable now. If your 242 already has 2.2 installed and you can find some turbo computers cheap enough then thats what I would do. You will need to also obtain a LH2.2 EZK wiring to go with your turbo 2.2 fuel ecu. You cannot use the NA "Chrysler" setup. Its very aggressive with timing and you wont get much more than 5psi out if due to how aggressive the timing curve is. The ezk is much more stable and suited to a turbo setup.

I think I might even have a turbo 2.2 computer here. Its not in a case anymore because I was using the case for something else but im sure it worked last time I had it plugged in.

Parryana

I just got my hands on this, what have I got? What turbo does it take?

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