carnut1100
The older Volvos use studs and taper seat nuts so will centre just fine without hubcentric rings.
Don't know about the bolts, if the under side of the head has a taper seat they will also seat fine.
If they are a flat seat then the need the hubring to centre.
One bump and they will go off centre?
Not quite........
Contrary to what many think, hub centring rings do NOT support the weight of the car, nor do they take any of the shock loading from bumps......they are there purely to centre the wheel on installation.
I was curious a while ago and dragged out the old formulae from when I was studying engineering, and ran the numbers. Of the top of my head I can't recall the figures and it's too late at night for me to run the numbers again.... But if they were carrying the load, firstly they would deform under static load and secondly they would shear right off at the first decent bump........not to mention that one decent clutch dump would shear the studs right off!!!
The load is carried by the friction between the wheel face and the hub face while under the clamping force of the studs.....
In fact, I have seen plastic hub ring adapters....
Ex850R
^ Yep.
Vee_Que
They do assist for fitting the wheels up though. You can bore out the smaller centres as is done for commodores too.
Ben
Great Info!
Can the mods @Rob update the OP so it's a bit more readable, make it more a spreadsheet format please?
Need more spacing on the end of paragraphs @jamesinc =)
Ex850R
@Vee_Que , what places do the Commodore wheel boring , i have asked a tyre guy here and he says go to engineering shop and i know they will not be cheap at all....
Any ideas anyone?
AshDVS
Many tyre places can outsource this service for you - close(ish) to you @Ex850R, try 'Motorsport Wheels & Tyres' in Derrimut.
I regularly use Bob Jane TMarts here in Geelong and they have even sent out wheels for straightening for me, so no doubt they're be able to send some out for centrebore work.
Recently, I had the sleeves machined out of my Titans. 5 sleeves cast into each wheel. Total to machine them all was $140 which I thought was reasonable, ie $35 per wheel.
volstretch
carnut1100;19797 wroteOne bump and they will go off centre?
Not quite........
Contrary to what many think, hub centring rings do NOT support the weight of the car, nor do they take any of the shock loading from bumps......they are there purely to centre the wheel on installation.
I was curious a while ago and dragged out the old formulae from when I was studying engineering, and ran the numbers. Of the top of my head I can't recall the figures and it's too late at night for me to run the numbers again.... But if they were carrying the load, firstly they would deform under static load and secondly they would shear right off at the first decent bump........not to mention that one decent clutch dump would shear the studs right off!!!
The load is carried by the friction between the wheel face and the hub face while under the clamping force of the studs.....
In fact, I have seen plastic hub ring adapters....
On the FWD Volvos with bolts even if you were to centre the wheel perfectly which is almost impossible they can still become imbalanced. You are correct that hub centric rings centre the wheel but they also keep it centred. Have had not problems with plastic hub centric rings, in fact am using XC90 17inch rims with plastic hub centric rings now on my S70R and no further problems (XC90 rims are much stronger than Volans). Just got a set of S60R 18inch for my V70T6 and without hub centric rims it vibrates above 75kph, with hub centric rims its smooth again. From an engineering perspective there is a difference between alloy rims and steel rims. Steel rims have a shaped stud hole with a 'coin' to centre and hold the nut, alloy rims do not have the same shape and do not have the coin so the hub does more than you think.
egads (she/her)
I thought the pitched bit of the bolts set the wheel in the correct position? I know that out of spec bolts can bugger this up but centre rings or not didn't make a difference with the 16's @rob now has or the xc90 17's that went flying due to lack of tightening after working on car.
volstretch
The S70R is brutal on rims and tyres. After all the teething problems with the XC90 rims they have now settled down with the correct hub centric rings and I have done about 45K without problems. We do check and retighten all our wheel bolts religiously now after noting that FWD and AWD Volvos have a habit loosing up (or is that gremlins at play?)
Rob
Ben;19847 wroteGreat Info!
Can the mods
@Rob update the OP so it's a bit more readable, make it more a spreadsheet format please?
Need more spacing on the end of paragraphs
@jamesinc =)
Try this...
http://ozvolvo.org/discussion/comment/19796/#Comment_19796
jamesinc
| Model | Stud pattern | Offset | Centre Hub Bore | Centre Hub Protrusion |
|---|
| 850, S70, V70, S60, XC70 | 5 x 108mm | 35-50mm | 65.1mm | 12mm |
| 850 | 4 x 108mm | 35-40mm | 65.1mm | ? |
| XC90 (2003-2013) | 5 x 108mm | 35-50mm | 67.1mm | ? |
| S40, V40 (-2004) | 4 x 114.3mm | 42-46mm | 67.1mm | ? |
| S40, V50, C30 (2004-) | 5 x 108mm | 35-50mm | 63.4mm | ? |
| V70T6, S80, XC60, S60, V60 (2008-2014) | 5 x 108mm | 35-50mm | 63.4mm | ? |
| 164 (75-), 240, 244, 245, 262, 264 | 5 x 108mm | 10-20mm | 65.1mm | ? |
| 144, 164 (-74), P1800 w/ 4-wheel disc brakes | 5 x 108mm | -40mm | 65.1mm | ? |
| 440, 460, 480 (1986-1997) | 4 x 100mm | 35-45mm | 52.1mm | ? |
Note: Have data to add? Add a comment to this thread and I will update
Major Ledfoot
10 YEARS LATER (lol)
jamesinc 144, 164, 240, 244, 245, 262, 2645x108 / 5x4.2510-20mm65.1mm
The 140/164 up to YM 1974 (& B20 versions of the 1800 with 4-wheels discs) actually have a -40mm offset; the wheels were either 5 inches wide, or 5.5 inch width on the 164s and 1800s.
The YM 1975 164s (rarely seen in OZ) used the 240 offset, as they also used the 240 diff assembly with the smaller track.
PaddlerEd
James, I think that the 400's had a 4 stud pattern, but not the same as the 93 850... Rob's edit has it all in there...
jamesinc
PaddlerEd;19901 wroteJames, I think that the 400's had a 4 stud pattern, but not the same as the 93 850... Rob's edit has it all in there...
Cheers Ed.
Ben
Thanks James and Rob, much more readable and much appreciated :-bd
egads (she/her)
They do loosen @volstretch, at least a little. Can you switch to the later style bolt with the floating collar to cut down on the loosening or am I being dim and they are different thread?
I shouldn't be so down on having your wheels centred, you would be silly not to have something to help locate the wheels in the centre and persuade them that that is where they should stay.
Crabolsky140
Is there a reasonable limit to be considered for wheel spacers?
carnut1100
Nothing wrong with hub rings....and they do indeed make it more accurately centred and easier to fit.
But they DON'T take the load of the car.
Steel or alloy, the wheels are held in centre once fitted purely by the friction force between the wheel and hub face.
Seriously, the torque of a full power launch would shear off the studs if it wasn't for the friction force holding it all on...
Friction is stronger than you think.....
volstretch
Total agreement. My point was based around balance or imbalance issues only. For the uninitiated there are Hub Centric and Lug or Stud Centric wheel / rims.
Early Volvo's are lug / stud centric, that is by putting the correct rim on the axle and tightening the wheels nuts in the correct sequence and to the correct torque, the wheel / rim will be centred. Simple no problem.
Later Volvo's 850 onwards are Hub Centric, that is the hub is of a specific size and tolerance to centre the wheel / rim onto the hub. If the wheel is not centred on the hub even tightening and torqueing the wheel / rim in the correct manner will not centre the rim. Problem is imbalance resulting in significant vibration and drivability issues.
This is from a US racing site: "Hubcentric centers the rim on the register of the hub and the lugcentric rim is centered by the lug nuts. If you have the choice, run the hubcentric, less stress on the studs and lug nuts".
Using the list provided you can see if you may have problems or not but a word of warning to the uninitiated;
even if you have the correct stud pattern, off set and centre bore, not all Volvo rims are compatible across the models.
Case in point is the 740HP Gemini rim. This rim has thick spokes and does not fit early 240's (probably 140's and 164's either) without the use of a 5mm spacer. The wider (thicker) earlier brake callipers foul on the inside of the Gemini rim. The sudden nice shiny look of your callipers is an indication of a problem.
I also note that later 960 / S90 models will not accept all Volvo rims with the slight difference in offset enough to cause fouling when turning the front wheels.
The whole idea was to provide a guide of what may or may not work across the Volvo range and maybe save you some dollars.
SPT940
So which wheels will the 960/V90 accept? ie offset diameter & width?
Rob
As far as I am aware anything that will fit an 850 will fit a S90. The s90 and late 960 are fwd offset I think.
i am happy to be corrected if I am wrong.
