Volvos with AWD or 4WD

Jackiejr

Hi,

As you might have read, I've been seeking a SAFE & reliable Volvo for my son/DIL to buy. They live in snowy Toronto, Canada.

Having found two cars I thought to be options, I was told they were NOT advisable.....thank you again Philia Bear for your detailed notes & everyone else who shed light on the matter.

My Volvo mechanic told me he would ONLY recommend a Volvo which is AWD or 4WD because of Toronto's poor weather. When I asked if he'd favour a supersafe S80 but only FWD, he said no, despite the S80's added safety features.

I tried to search which models of Volvos ARE AWD or 4WD & only found the following list,

850 AWD
S60 AWD (2002)
Volvo S60 AWD (2003-...),
Volvo V70 AWD (2003-...),
Volvo XC 70 (2003-...),
Volvo S60R AWD,
Volvo V70R AWD
V70 AWD (1997-2002),
V70 Cross Country (2000-2002),
XC70 (2002)
XC 90 (2002-...)

Might anyone know of additional models pls or is this it?

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About XCs he said:

All XC60s are fine
All XC70s are fine
All XC90s 2007/8 & onwards, are fine (though curiously one review I found, warned about the XC90 '16)

Do you agree?

If you've any helpful hints, might you be so kind as to word things accessibly for a car ignoramus?

Many thanks again & G-d bless.

Major Ledfoot

JFYI, the S80 did come in both FWD, and in AWD versions.

Jackiejr

bgpzfm142;125147 wroteJFYI, the S80 did come in both FWD, and in AWD versions.

Many thanks but the car we were offered was only FWD.

Philia_Bear

No 3.2 motors
No t6 motors

That eliminates most of the options above

Effing buy a dam Honda pilot already (2006+) it's safer than most if not all of the options listed, has a better awd system, is massively MORE reliable and is cheaper

Jackiejr

Philia_Bear;125154 wroteNo 3.2 motors
No t6 motors

Effing buy a dam Honda pilot already (2006+) it's safer than most if not all of the options listed, has a better awd system, is massively MORE reliable and is cheaper

Thank you Philia Bear. So are you saying (as I asked in my message but you might have missed it), that the internal cage/integrity of the Honda Pilot is as good as that of a Volvo? So if a massive truck drove into a Honda Pilot heaven forbid, they'd be as safe as in a Volvo? Likewise if it rolled?

http://wwwa.autotrader.ca/cars/honda/pilot/on/thornhill/?prx=50&prv=Ontario&loc=L4J4R3&trans=Automatic&fuel=Gasoline&clr=Grey&sts=New-Used&pRng=%2c13000&yRng=%2c2011&hprc=True&wcp=True&inMarket=advancedSearch

These all have high mileage and seem no cheaper than used Volvos. Now I know that if looked after, a Volvo can do many hundreds of thousands of miles. Can Hondas do that too?

You see my thinking, flawed as it might well be is that in an horrendous accident, car falling off road, somersaulting, massive hit by huge truck, I don't care HOW many air bags there are, unless the actual strength of the cage and side panels is very strong, people will be cactus.

Why am I so paranoid? As I mentioned, I walked out of a totalled '83 or '87 Merc. I fell asleep at the wheel after many hours of driving (despite having taken breaks etc). I woke up with a semi trailer approaching me. I therefore swerved, lost control of the car, went into a ditch, rolled it head to tail twice according to witnesses, flew through the air, hit a power pole meters above the ground and landed. I walked out of the car on my own. One of my closest friends rolled her Japanese car in '85 and is now a quadriplegic. Granted cars are safer now than back then. In addition, I have spoken to different mechanics and whilst you are clearly extremely experienced and knowledgeable, for some reason, none of them agree with you.

Being so ignorant myself, all I can do is as much research as possible and rely upon the kindness of auto savvy folk such as those in car forums.

I really DO appreciate your counsel.

Philia_Bear

The Honda has a better cage than anything other than the xc90 and its god dam close to the XC90

If you get hit by a truck your dead... even in an xc90
If you hit a tree at 100kph your dead... even in the xc90

Also reliability is just if not more important than the cage... you can freeze to death if you break down in the wrong place in CA in the winter

Also they are in Toronto... unless they are living 100km from the city they don't need awd or 4wd, they need snow tires and snow chains and thats it... I survived in Northern WI (colder and worse weather than Toronto) for >10 years
Christ Toronto does not get that much snow and the traffic is so bad that you never get over 50kph anyways...

I mean I survived in a 940T wagon with an open diff... snow tires and chains and knowing when and how to use them are MORE important than AWD or 4WD... Also.. AWD/4WD does not help you stop... just go... so if someone does not know how to drive they are more likely to get in trouble
BTW.... most people living in Toronto drive a FWD car and might have snow tires (but probably All seasons)

3.2 and T6 motor
Both have chain driven accessories and more gears than the auto transmission, stuff on them goes wrong less often than on the T5 or D5 or V8 motor... but when stuff goes wrong it is FREQUENTLY a replace engine at $$$$$$$ job
The rear timing chain that drives the accessories has a tendency to not be lubed correctly and wearing a hole in the block until it escapes to the outside world... the motors all have a huge issue with oil consumption and frequently require oil between changes
If you have ADHD kid... then what are the chances of them actually checking the oil every 500 miles like I do?
The labor costs on the 3.2 and T6 (3.2 with a turbo) are also NUTS as compared to the same jobs on the D5 or V8

The first year of the V8 was shit... most of them are dead now.... but it gave the V8 a bad name... all issues were resolved by 08

The 3.2 and T6 have never been bad enough to warrant a recall and thus were never improved... they were all mostly shit from day 1 and never improved

BTW...
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/honda/pilot-4-door-suv/2007
They don't give good ratings unless a car is safe... and it was one of their top safety picks

Lifetime... my dads is up to 400,000KM (240,000 Miles) and has had zilch done to it other than scheduled stuff it blows away anything Volvo which is WHY there is a premium on them... they are stupid reliable and stupid cheap for TCO

Volvo has stated since the P2 platform came out that the car is designed for a lifetime of only 7 years and 100k Miles....

Jackiejr

Philia_Bear;125173 wroteThe Honda has a better cage than anything other than the xc90 and its god dam close to the XC90

If you get hit by a truck your dead... even in an xc90
If you hit a tree at 100kph your dead... even in the xc90

Also reliability is just if not more important than the cage... you can freeze to death if you break down in the wrong place in CA in the winter ........................

Many thanks for all the information you so generously share.

Please understand that what YOU can do vis a vis buying used cars is not what my kids or I can do.

Whilst I am always grateful to learn from others, the huge number of variables I am juggling here is making it impossible to buy a car. You have said not to buy anything over 100,000 kms, not to buy various engines, not to buy the cars we were considering that WERE of a good age and affordable price and then told me to buy a Honda Pilot when there are simply next to NONE below 170,000 kms, for the same price or more than the Volvos we'd been considering and your reasoning was that they are going to be far cheaper.

I have as a result, decided to buy my son and daughter in law, decade long bus passes.

Many thanks again.

Philia_Bear

Sorry

Nothing Volvo over 120k km

Pilot... anything up to 200,000km Is fine... just make sure it's had the timing belt done

Btw what's the budget? I can ask my Toronto contacts to find something

Jackiejr

Philia_Bear;125195 wroteSorry

Nothing Volvo over 120k km

Pilot... anything up to 200,000km Is fine... just make sure it's had the timing belt done

Btw what's the budget? I can ask my Toronto contacts to find something

Many thanks indeed. They can pay max $13,000 if they get financing. They'd been approved for the S80 they almost bought.

What we want is...and despite your proclamation of non necessity...

A Volvo AWD,

We've been looking on autosales.ca and kilililililililili or some such name. Having dealt with this today from 7 am to now at 8.24 pm, I no longer remember my own name.

Jackiejr

Philia_Bear;125195 wroteSorry

Nothing Volvo over 120k km

Pilot... anything up to 200,000km Is fine... just make sure it's had the timing belt done

Btw what's the budget? I can ask my Toronto contacts to find something

Oh and if they could get something that does 100kms on 5 liters and tows like a freight train, well they'd not say no. That said, they'd be willing to forego the spinning propeller on the front.

Jackiejr

Philia_Bear;125173 wroteThe Honda has a better cage than anything other than the xc90 and its god dam close to the XC90

BTW...
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/honda/pilot-4-door-suv/2007
They don't give good ratings unless a car is safe... and it was one of their top safety picks

Philia Bear, the link you've provided shows that quite a few features are only rated as being marginal e.g. roof strength in different years and restraints as well as overlap, reducing the overall safety no?
I can't say that inspires confidence in me. :o(

240

If you want an AWD volvo and nothing else, I would get an AWD S40, V50 or C30. (They're all the same car but with different bodies.) Not sure what engine choices are available over there but in Australia we have the 2.4i ("normal"), T5 (turbo) and D5 (diesel) all of which are good provided you look after them.

XC70 or S60 would be ok but only in manual as the autos almost always die.

(Or you could get a Subaru... AWD, more reliable, usually fun to drive, and cheaper.)

Chris

As @240 said, if it must be a Volvo and AWD, see what they sold in Canada in the S40/V50 line. I think you'll only get AWD in a T5 (no C30). The T5 goes well, but you won't see 5 km per 100 that's for sure. You'd need the diesel for that, but they are 2WD only. And yes, low km.

Subaru is a good option if they are priced sensibly in Canada. They are typically safe in newer versions and apart from the odd model reliable.

Philia_Bear

Jackiejr;125249 wrote
Philia_Bear;125173 wroteThe Honda has a better cage than anything other than the xc90 and its god dam close to the XC90

BTW...
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/honda/pilot-4-door-suv/2007
They don't give good ratings unless a car is safe... and it was one of their top safety picks

Philia Bear, the link you've provided shows that between 2009 and 2015, the safety rating for the driver was POOR.
That to me does NOT sound as good as Volvo does it?

Yeah that's the 2009+ version
I said 06-08 :-)

Philia_Bear

Also a p2 Volvo would rate as acceptable or poor under current 2018 standards

Jackiejr

240;125254 wroteIf you want an AWD volvo and nothing else, I would get an AWD S40, V50 or C30. (They're all the same car but with different bodies.) Not sure what engine choices are available over there but in Australia we have the 2.4i ("normal"), T5 (turbo) and D5 (diesel) all of which are good provided you look after them.

XC70 or S60 would be ok but only in manual as the autos almost always die.

(Or you could get a Subaru... AWD, more reliable, usually fun to drive, and cheaper.)

Many thanks Chris.
Am fast moving toward being Amish. What horse and buggy can you recommend?

Why do so many Volvo mechanics LOVE the XC70 and say they are amazingly reliable I wonder?

Have been reading that the XC90 '16 often autobrakes for absolutely no reason. One minute a person is driving along the road and the next, the car complete;ly stops, with NOTHING in front of them, whatsoever. How does Volvo NOT recall so dangerous a car? One person has had this happen many times in 6 months and the car as brand new. Eek!

Jackiejr

Chris;125255 wroteAs @240 said, if it must be a Volvo and AWD, see what they sold in Canada in the S40/V50 line. I think you'll only get AWD in a T5 (no C30). The T5 goes well, but you won't see 5 km per 100 that's for sure. You'd need the diesel for that, but they are 2WD only. And yes, low km.

Subaru is a good option if they are priced sensibly in Canada. They are typically safe in newer versions and apart from the odd model reliable.

Sorry Chris, I'd only been joking and quoting Philia Bear when I talked of 5kms per 100 and I have also been strongly warned off the T6s.

240

Don't mix up T6 and T5.
T6 is bad, T5 is good. (Although very thirsty, expect 13 litres per 100.)

Honestly Subaru make excellent cars. My mother had an Outback. No it's probably not quite as safe as the Volvo but she walked away (and even drove it home from) an accident that probably would have been lethal in a little Corolla, Mazda etc.
It handled brilliantly, was AWD, quiet, very fuel efficient and relentlessly reliable. (Despite having the 2.5 motor famed for blowing head gaskets.)
My point being - look at a Liberty or Outback as an option as the benefits may well outweigh those of a Volvo.

Jackiejr

240;125275 wroteDon't mix up T6 and T5.
T6 is bad, T5 is good. (Although very thirsty, expect 13 litres per 100.)

Honestly Subaru make excellent cars. My mother had an Outback. No it's probably not quite as safe as the Volvo but she walked away (and even drove it home from) an accident that probably would have been lethal in a little Corolla, Mazda etc.
It handled brilliantly, was AWD, quiet, very fuel efficient and relentlessly reliable. (Despite having the 2.5 motor famed for blowing head gaskets.)
My point being - look at a Liberty or Outback as an option as the benefits may well outweigh those of a Volvo.

Oh silly me yes..I HAD confused the T6 and T5. Apologies. My mind is like mush having read about and looked at and discussed SOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo many different models and features.

I took your advice and searched for AWD 40s or v50s; alas, to no avail. Zip, nada, zilch.

Anyway, having spent all night once again looking on line and speaking to various people and trying to give my son and DIL good info...not unlike herding cats....I told them that if they won't listen I'm not going to waste my time further as I am seriously going loopy...or more accurately, loopier. I suggested that if they feel they know better, they are welcome to learn by their own mistakes.

I am thus now after 3 weeks of this insanity, going to devour 55 pieces of toast and drink myself into a stupor.

Many thanks again for everyone's kindness, patience and suggestions and if anyone wants a 27 year old son....I know of one that's going cheaply. Good as a paperweight.

Philia_Bear

Hehe
Sometimes it just works out like that