No Start

familyman · 2017-08-30T09:09:22+00:00

YM 1990 will be LH 2.4. Have you checked for codes?

Ramrodfunk

Symptoms of a faulty ignition amplifier are :- after the car running for a while the module heats up and the car dies. After a while, when the module cools the down, the car will start.
If it's completely cactus then the car will crank but not start.
I think you need a ohmmeter to check if the module is okay. I'll have a look in my manual to see how to check it but in some manuals the module barely gets a mention.

familyman

Thanks, that would be great. I was wondering where to find that info.

familyman

A good friend who is a mechanic made a long drive today to help. Car is (mostly) running and finally FIXED!

Turns out two things were wrong that turned into three.

1. The first was the pink label ECU. (which I've confirmed by plugging it back into the now-running car.)

2. All the cranking with non-starts from that first faulty ECU, and during all my tests, had fouled the sparkplugs up with so much carbon they were both pitch black with soot, and drenched with fuel. THIS is why I had fuel and spark, but no start. Was too busy looking for the complicated, to think of the simple.

3. The over-rich condition has killed the O2 sensor.

One of the last two alone might have allowed it to start. (It gave an occasional kick like it would start.) But with both these, plus maybe the new ECU trying to 'learn' with a non-starting engine - made it impossible. After new plugs it started instantly but took several minutes to get the ECU to where it could idle without a lot of throttle. Then several minutes of driving to run close to normal. It's still running rich with the O2 light on. So I'm going to see if cleaning the O2 sensor gets that light off and solves that for the time being - get it registered. Then order a new one along with a bunch of other parts.

Have started it several times too to make sure I'm not posting a BIG THANK YOU again, only to eat crow for a second time.

familyman

Meh - seeing lots of different opinions on success/non-success of cleaning O2 sensors. May as well wait and change it once.

familyman

Need some advice. I've injured myself, can't get under the car too many times, and need to replace the oxygen sensor.

* Does anyone know the 100% correct part number, so I get one with the correct fittings? I'm seeing 'equivalents' on a few sites. But they show different numbers of wires or fittings, prices can vary by ~$50 USD, and I saw somewhere online the other day where a guy bought the one a store recommended, but its reference voltage was wrong - causing a rich mixture for the life of the sensor.

* Also, I own 10, 12, 13, 14, 15 & 17mm (flat) split ring spanners (to slip over the sensor wires)... But I see several dedicated 'bent' spanners sold for removing the O2 sensor, like:

Right-angle socket you press a ratchet into, $9 USD https://www.ipdusa.com/products/10890/124431-compact-oxygen-sensor-socket:

360 degree ratchet, $33 USD https://www.ipdusa.com/products/6743/110221-360-degree-ratchet:

Angled O2 wrench, $18 USD https://www.ipdusa.com/products/5418/113823-oxygen-sensor-wrench:

Will one of my split ring spanners fit, or is one of the above needed - which gives the best /easiest of removal/replacement? (You know what I mean right... Like how there are several types of oil filter removal tools, but some are difficult to use due to having limited access... What tool have people found to be best for this job - one of these? Something else entirely??)

familyman

Wow, it's even worse on FCP... A price difference of $146 USD, between two O2 sensors that look the same:

$77 USD - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-oxygen-sensor-front-240-740-244-245-940-780-760-bosch-13034
$223 USD - https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-oxygen-sensor-240-740-3501753

Vee_Que

Genuine vs non genuine is the major difference plus the speed of which they respond.

Major Ledfoot

I used a pipe spanner to remove these sensors.

The FCP guide is a bit misleading, since it lists the cheap and expensive sensor under the same Volvo part number. Likewise, the Bosch site / guide isn't particularly helpful, nor are Skandix.

Volvo p/n 3501753 seems to be the correct one, and the Bosch part number is 0 258 003 034, according to the Volvo Pocket Data Booklet, p.32. But neither ~~FCP, nor~~ iPD, nor Skandix mention the Bosch part number.

Edit: FCP does mention the Bosch p/n for the cheaper sensor, and it's the 0 258 003 034.

Trouble is, 0 258 003 034 appears to be out of stock at Bosch OZ.
https://au.bosch-automotive-shop.com/products/details/-/productdetails/0258003034/oxygen-sensor-0258003034-3-wires

But $88.50 USD on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/172668815400

Or the $77 one on FCP.

user48736353002

What is the VIN number of the car?

tbro

As PB would say ROCKAUTO.com $ 82.70 delivered $aus

familyman

Vee_Que;119856 wroteGenuine vs non genuine is the major difference plus the speed of which they respond.

bgpzfm142;119863 wroteThe FCP guide is a bit misleading, since it lists the cheap and expensive sensor under the same Volvo part number.

Ah yes, I read that last night about signal speed. I also read most O2 sensors are made by Bosch. I don't know if that's accurate, but I thought maybe that meant the FCP "Volvo" version was exactly the same specs as the Bosch, just with "Volvo" printed on it instead?

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bgpzfm142;119863 wroteI used a pipe spanner to remove these sensors.

You mean one of these (LOL)?

Or these?

This second type is the 'split-ring spanners' I have. But I don't have 22mm, which seems to be the required size if that long angled chrome one from IPD pictured above is correct?

It's just that the shape of some of these tools, gives me the impression a straight spanner can't gain access?

If it's the first type (surely not, LOL) then I guess there must be more room there than I thought... Because I was considering this socket type, but last time I was under there, I didn't think it would fit for some reason, plus with the ratchet head on top... Sensor tip too close to the firewall maybe?

Supercheap have this which might cover all bases, but the price is getting silly at $75:

Just trying to select the 'best' tool. I hate struggling with tools that work half-right, require flipping over for each couple of mm movement, etc. when something better was available that gives better movement/access.

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@Major Ledfoot - are you saying the $77 FCP one is the correct one, or just that it's the same part number and its signal/sampling speed is unknown?

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user48736353002;119870 wroteWhat is the VIN number of the car?

VIN: YV*************** (removed)

-----

tbro;119871 wroteAs PB would say ROCKAUTO.com $ 82.70 delivered $aus

PB!? Edit: Oh - Philia Bear - right. Fav. store I guess?

jamesinc

That $9 crows foot dealy is what I use, works fine.

Major Ledfoot

familyman;119896 wroteOr these?

That. :)

@bgpzfm142 - are you saying the $77 FCP one is the correct one, or just that it's the same part number and its signal/sampling speed is unknown?

Yes, I'd be fitting the $77USD sensor. From the info given by FCP, it appears to be the correct item for you. (OTOH, if The Cleever's sensor goes cactus, I have to get the expensive one, because turbo...)

The sampling speed is set by the ECU, not the sensor. The characteristics of the sensor at a range of temperatures is determined by the sensor type. Fact is, FCP has screwed up and listed the part number 3501753 for both sensors they're selling, when it's really just the cheaper one. See?

user48736353002

I can supply Walker direct fit O2 sensors, and having a look at the catalog, they list 2 different options dependent on the build number. From what I can tell the difference is only the length of the cable length. 710mm vs 1675mm. The longer one is for 240s with build number 334100 onward. Your car would require the longer one. I'll get you a price on Monday if you are interested.

familyman

@user48736353002

Thanks. With something like a sensor I'd *normally* choose whoever the OEM supplier because it's easy, and 'just to be safe'. But I did just spend time looking up Walker. I'm reading lots of 'blank stare comments' (people who've never heard of them), lots more people saying take the safe route with Bosch, NGK, ACDelco... (Have also seen it said ACDelco "has fast reaction times". Not sure if that even applies to a '91 240 though.) Others claim there's only a couple/few companies in the world that make O2 sensors, so they conclude Walker is probably made by one of them anyway...

So it's difficult to know the right way to go. Money isn't the issue. I'm more concerned about matching cable/fittings, but more than that - the specs of the thing. i.e. That it's voltage range, operating temp of it's heater, etc. matches the intended specs, so it's feeding the correct voltage/feedback to the ECU, thus not overfueling, etc.

So I'm not completely against trying another brand (and have no way to check these better-known ones match either, for that matter), but I guess I'd need a way to confirm those things first before 'risking' it?

user48736353002

My preference so far has been to stick to OEM parts as well, sourcing them whenever I can if the price is right. When it comes to sensors, something complicated like a AFM I would personally avoid anything but OEM (based on it's complexity). I'll ask the supplier what they know about this particular O2 sensor, but installing a non genuine narrowband O2 sensor wouldn't keep me awake at night.

Even if one brand of narrowband O2 sensor reacts slower than another, given the role they play to me it's a non issue. A wideband on the other hand (especially when tuning) is another story.

Interestingly, I've gone through 3 wideband O2 sensors in my turbo 240 (they are sensitive to blowby and rich tuning) and one of those was a non genuine sensor which seemed to last the longest. I'll get you a price tomorrow. Most likely won't be the cheapest option, but will be guaranteed to fit and work. At the very least those cable lengths should help you choose the right item to buy from overseas.

familyman

Today I read in another car forum, people saying to avoid Bosch consumer/aftermarket sensors. That they license the right to manufacture parts under the name, so get OEM only.

However... I decided I couldn't judge which tool would be best without getting under the car, so I've done that. (It wasn't located where I remembered, and kind of points at an angle towards the passenger side of the car. So there's plenty of room for any of the tools above, really.)

But while under there the sensor was really clean so I wrote the numbers down. I can't see the first character, but it's "-TK Japan" - so NTK by the looks of it. And two numbers on it are ZA446-E49 (not 100% about the 9), and what appears to be BA16693. Neither really shows up online, and NGK lists a completely different format of number. So yet another case of manufacturers dropping their part numbers to make things difficult.

Walker (in USA anyway) seems to list only one part number.

Major Ledfoot

OZA446-E49 (that's letter 'o') is the full part number, equivalent of the Bosch '034'.

http://www.vehiclepartsdatabase.com/vehicles/all/volvo/940saloon/23/b234g/13461/lambdaoxygensensors/bosch/0258003034

jamesinc

Don't stress too much about it. A Bosch 034 sensor will work fine.

familyman

FINALLY got time - and felt well enough - to replace the O2 sensor yesterday. Before starting the engine I also pulled the recently-new sparkplugs, and cleaned off the carbon deposits using the wire wheel of my bench grinder. Refit plugs; start engine; fixed? Nope. Still running rough and the lambda-sond warning light on the dash is still on. [Sigh!]

Q1: Is it possible driving it for months with the faulty sensor would create so much carbon it would INSTANTLY kill the new O2 sensor? (And if that's a yes, then how on earth do you clear the carbon out before sacrificing another O2 sensor!?)

Q2: I have a scanned Volvo Green book PDF that is so faint you can't tell where the O2 sensor wires go off to. Does anyone have a clear wiring diagram showing all the lambda-sond wiring for a 1990 and/or 1991 240 LH2.4 engine? (My car wiring seems to alternate between 1990 and 1991 at different times. Hopefully this is the same in both though.)

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