E10 in a 240

240 · 2016-10-15T02:42:23+00:00

89+ 240 is fine to run up to e50

Spac

Well, 100% duty cycle and still detonating says that you've got a fundamental setup failure.
I don't think it's fair to blame any sort of fuel for that...

deleted_user_160

No, definitely not blaming it on fuel, didn't say that at all.
Basically lh2.2 can only get you so far. I wanted to push it as far as it could see what we end up with.
Then I added bigger turbo, ported manifold + bigger ic.
So managed to get a little more power across the range wile less detonation up top. As I squeezed a little more from the amm.

Then I couldn't get closer than the front wheels to a r32 gtr.
So I cheated a started toying with e85, couldn't get much more as I ended up with spark blow out by that point.
Now I'm back on 98 with increased fuel pressure

perko

This is always a fun question to see, I know in a kjet car e10 will ping something shocking with everything set stock, i've had some cars which run best on it, some where it makes no difference what fuel goes in and some which like to be mixed every second tank (my old express van which liked alternating tanks of e10 and 98, would run like shit on either all the time but happy to change between). For the amount of k's I do spending an extra couple cents a litre for a fuel the car is happier with is fine, I haven't owned anything that doesn't drink premium for a while though

Vee_Que

Canoe;88438 wroteIve got a 92 240. Dont know if this is true,but the 10% chews out the cat quicker. For only saving 2 cents,I will stick with the unleaded. But when i get my water injection set up,i will have the equivalent of 116 octane when i use 50/50 water/metho.

Do you plan to go to 11.5:1 compression ratio? If not. Not worth the effort!

Angus242164

perko;88915 wroteI know in a kjet car e10 will ping something shocking with everything set stock,

If this is a comparison between E10 and non ethanol fuel of the exact same octane rating, on the same car in the same location, then that's a pretty weird result.

deleted_user_160

Water/meth is e85 of the 90's ;P

Vee_Que

And if I accidentally go too far with my c.r on the b20, in my future. ..

eaglemat86

E10 is fine. In qld all fuels can have up to 10% ethanol without having to say so. Its a farmers helping thing.

I is also an awsome octane booster hence bp 91 octane is 10% ethanol, which mean an 87 or 88 octane base product, which mean bloody cheap to make.

themadracoon

Angus wrote
perko wroteI know in a kjet car e10 will ping something shocking with everything set stock,
If this is a comparison between E10 and non ethanol fuel of the exact same octane rating, on the same car in the same location, then that's a pretty weird result.

Hi all... interesting topic. My 9/84 K-jet 240 B23E used to ping most of the time (more so on light throttle - can't explain that) even on 98RON. A change of the old fuel filter helped (I figured it might have been running lean). But it still occasionally pings. So am wondering if E10 - someone said it burns cooler - is safe to try in my model to see if I can eliminate pinging altogher? ie are there still lots of rubber hoses / seals in the fuel system in a 1984 240 which would make it advisable NOT to use E10?

Thanks in advance.

Anthony

E10 - for putting around the place it seems to run OK, but place the mix under high load and I find engines ping.
A no-no in a turbo engine.

Seeing strange effects on rubber parts and o-rings, it sort of leaches out the goodness from the material.

<When the injectors are already running at 100% duty cycle on 98 and still get detonation.>
Better get a air/fuel ratio meter - ping/detonation occurs at max torque, so the ignition timing is not retarding enough.

Canoe

Vee_Que;88926 wrote
Canoe;88438 wroteIve got a 92 240. Dont know if this is true,but the 10% chews out the cat quicker. For only saving 2 cents,I will stick with the unleaded. But when i get my water injection set up,i will have the equivalent of 116 octane when i use 50/50 water/metho.
Do you plan to go to 11.5:1 compression ratio? If not. Not worth the effort!

Thats an estimated octane,done on a dyno after the WI was added. The car was not modified,except the WI and 50/50 alcohol/water. My main reason is for the other benefits of WI.

Vee_Que

What benefits do you get on a stock motor?

lasercowboy

eaglemat86;88977 wroteE10 is fine. In qld all fuels can have up to 10% ethanol without having to say so. Its a farmers helping thing.

This is not true (http://www.environment.gov.au/archive/fuelquality/publications/labelling.html), but it is true that Queensland has or will have mandatory ethanol contents for fuels.

Angus242164

The only rubber hose anywhere on an '84 model is in the tank connecting the pump to the sender, by this time it's usually disintegrated regardless of what fuel is used.

E10 is fine to use in turbo cars, as I said I did 100,000km on it in my 760T, it did ping but the stock fuel system wasn't able to supply enough fuel for the modified engine, and it would ping on fuel of any octane rating.

I've recently bought a late model turbo car which I've been running on United 95 octane E10, as the manual specifies min 95 octane, and says the car is E10 compatible.

Vee_Que

What did you buy Angus!?

With that in mind though, a late model car with knock sensors will get better economy on higher octane fuel because it will self tune and add timing. So its a false economy to use e10 etc.

My biggest issue with fuels is tank qaulity. Most places that do e10 are older servos and the tank condition would be questionable. For that reason I go to newer servos and use bp or mobil fuel. Its an extra $5 a tank...

Anthony

<<The only rubber hose anywhere on an '84 model is in the tank connecting the pump to the sender, by this time it's usually disintegrated regardless of what fuel is used>>

From the sender is a long rubber hose leading to the main fuel pump, unlikely to disintegrate compared to an O-Ring though.

On a 760T with a built in knock sensor that optimises timing to eliminate it - if its still pinging then the issue is a worry, wouldn't want to be a piston in your engine.
98 octane would be an essential starting point, plus an air/fuel ratio meter.

Angus242164

Vee_Que;89095 wroteWhat did you buy Angus!?

With that in mind though, a late model car with knock sensors will get better economy on higher octane fuel because it will self tune and add timing. So its a false economy to use e10 etc.

My biggest issue with fuels is tank qaulity. Most places that do e10 are older servos and the tank condition would be questionable. For that reason I go to newer servos and use bp or mobil fuel. Its an extra $5 a tank...

I'll do a thread on it soon, it isn't a Volvo.

With a difference of 15c per litre comparing United E10 95 octane to other 95 octane fuels, it's unlikely to be a false economy, but I haven't done the maths for this car yet.

The two United servos in Ballarat are newish, but there are certainly older ones elsewhere.

Vee_Que

Hm. Still not exactly a large amount if the computer kicks in and increases timing.

Angus242164

Anthony;89096 wrote<<The only rubber hose anywhere on an '84 model is in the tank connecting the pump to the sender, by this time it's usually disintegrated regardless of what fuel is used>>

From the sender is a long rubber hose leading to the main fuel pump, unlikely to disintegrate compared to an O-Ring though.

On a 760T with a built in knock sensor that optimises timing to eliminate it - if its still pinging then the issue is a worry, wouldn't want to be a piston in your engine.
98 octane would be an essential starting point, plus an air/fuel ratio meter.

I forgot about that large diameter hose feeding the main pump, something like that won't be degraded short term, but it might be affected by long term use.

760T's don't have knock sensors, O2 sensors etc. but I had a knock sensor hooked up to a warning light, and a wideband AFR gauge, as well as a calibrated boost gauge.

I used to drive the car hard and it would ping multiple times daily but I couldn't kill the engine, despite it being an early B230 with the thinner rods, and 500,000km when I stopped driving it.

The replacement engine will have engine management that can support the modified engine.

Angus242164

Vee_Que;89120 wroteHm. Still not exactly a large amount if the computer kicks in and increases timing.

Given that most of our driving is at light throttle cruise at 100km/h, I doubt the computer will be increasing timing very often, as it shouldn't need to do that when the requested torque value is low.

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