240
I generally use 91, 95 or 98 in my 240 (depending on price and availability), but yesterday I saw 107 octane fuel with 10% ethanol (at a United servo). BP also have 94 octane E10. Are ethanol fuels suitable for 240s, or should they be avoided?
Philia_Bear
89+ 240 is fine to run up to e50
240
So that's LH 2.4 240s, right?
Are there any performance/economy side effects?
deleted_user_160
When you use ethical, you loose bang per molecule.
Ethanol has less explosive power in comparison to petroleum based files.
However it runs significantly colder than petrol, and in turn can run more boost and/or more ignition timing.
240
blondejay;88400 wroteWhen you use ethical, you loose bang per molecule.
Ethanol has less explosive power in comparison to petroleum based files.
So could you think of it that an E10 fuel is equivalent in 'bang per molecule' to a non-E10 fuel of slightly lower octane? Or is that overthinking it?
Philia_Bear
On a na 240 it does not matter
lasercowboy
With very minor mods, you can run a LH2.4 240 on E85, so E10 should be nothing to worry about...
The fact the ethanol is only 10% (in 90% regular petrol) in E10 means that the differences are actually not that massive. Ethanol is naturally a less energy dense material (fewer C-C/C-H bonds per litre) so your overall mpg will be lower. Offset against lower cost, I guess the saving is fairly minimal, but you could tell us after a tank!
Our 240 engines are already running on 'petrol' that looks nothing like the composition of petrol from when they were made/designed.
As for the ethical question: where does the ethanol come from? Usually from food grade crops... when >10% of the earth's population live in food poverty, it's pretty gross that we're burning 'food' in our cars. But in the long run, it's really only a different moral dilemma to fossil fuels, not inherently better or worse.
The answer is of course that we should be using electric cars powered by sustainable electricity generation in Australia, but our energy policy is so FUBAR it's literally not even funny.
Canoe
Ive got a 92 240. Dont know if this is true,but the 10% chews out the cat quicker. For only saving 2 cents,I will stick with the unleaded. But when i get my water injection set up,i will have the equivalent of 116 octane when i use 50/50 water/metho.
deleted_user_160
Up to 10% ethanol is nothing to worry, about. Only when running high % like e85 do you need more drastic changes.
And risks need to be understood.
Especially where flex sensors are involved.
Angus242164
I ran my 760T on the United E10 95 octane for about 100,000km with no ill effects whatsoever. I did have to replace a fuel pump in that period, but it had done a huge number of k's and was 25 years old, and had no evidence of corrosion or muck inside it. My VT Commodore also uses it fairly often, no issues with it at all.
In any car with O2 sensor feedback you burn slightly more E10 to make the same power/go the same distance, but the cost difference is significant, when comparing E10 to the ethanol free equivalent of the same octane rating, so it's still cheaper to use the E10.
Ethanol does degrade natural rubber, so it's not a good idea to use it on early cars with rubber fuel hoses and rubber internal parts in carbies and mechanical fuel pumps. This isn't an issue in a late 240, there is no natural rubber anywhere in the fuel system.
Ethanol does absorb moisture from the atmosphere, like brake fluid does, and that water buildup can corrode metal parts in the fuel system. Not usually an issue in the real world, as the system is sealed when the fuel cap is fitted.
I can't think of any way that using E10 would harm a cat. converter.
There are a huge number of myths and lots of misinformation getting around about E10 fuel, and people, especially mechanics love to blame it for every running issue that can't be easily be diagnosed.
carnut1100
Ran it for a while in the gt.
Ran ok but no better than on ordinary petrol.
I found it would run like crap on 91, ran fine on 95, ran even better on 98 and the E10 was ok but nothing special.
Angus242164
A GT has no O2 sensor feedback to correct the mixture, so on E10 it would run a fraction leaner than on ethanol free fuel.
This might mean it felt less powerful than on ethanol free fuel of the same octane rating, but probably didn't use more fuel as a result of using the E10.
gavinh
Just watch were your buying from, ethanol absorbs moisture from the underground fuel tanks as most tanks have water in them from condensation. Some alittle some way to much. The petrol stations are supposed to dip there tanks for water weekly and use a different water detecting past for ethanol based fuels. Abit of useless info. There are certain servos I won't use in my area cause of this as I use to carry out the service work at them.
deleted_user_160
And well, we all know running lean is a very bad thing.
I was running e85 for some 12months I made some changes, no tune change. Was good, until I completly pushed lh2.2 well past its limits and didn't like to function well
Angus242164
Slightly lean to the degree we are talking about won't hurt anything, but going for busier servos is a good idea to avoid moisture build up.
deleted_user_160
I'll have to sus out my wagon on e10 just for educational purposes. See what the WB reads out at.
With e85 mixed with 98ron, as little as 5lt mixed in the 50lt tank it leaned out idle to as much as 15.9afr from memory. While maintaining factory injectors and amm settings.
Smitty
Apparantky E10 has evolved and is much improved and safe to use!
Will take more than a government funded app to convince me it is Ok!
Angus242164
I'd trust a wideband reading over anything put out by the government.
I'm curious to see some test results, shouldn't the ECU increase the injector pulsewidth to compensate for the change in mixture though?
Spac
+1 for everything Angus has said.
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As to fuel consumption, try it. I get the theory, but theory alone is only good for 1st year engineering students...
Here's a couple of anomalies:
1. 91 carby XF ute. Used LESS E10 than anyother sort of petrol;
2. 02 V6 Pajero. Uses the same amount of E10 as 91, 96 or 98.
Similarly, a friend had an Astina SP that used way less 98 than 91 - It was well & truly financially worth paying the extra for the 98.
deleted_user_160
Angus242164;88503 wroteI'd trust a wideband reading over anything put out by the government.
I'm curious to see some test results, shouldn't the ECU increase the injector pulsewidth to compensate for the change in mixture though?
When the injectors are already running at 100% duty cycle on 98 and still get detonation. Adding ethanol doesn't help.
However with the right changes you can make it work.
