Buying Daughter a first car.

Oppolock · 2016-01-05T00:12:19+00:00

what price is she willing to spend as i have a c70 covertable we are selling 2003, gun metal gray with black roof and two tone interior. Black top dash and o...

Ex850R

I can vouch for Gippsland roads and conditions ....
I visit mates up from Welshpool and drives around there and surrounds involve wildlife including cows who may get out and rubbernecking city folk who drive down the windy dirt roads as if they own them. Milk tankers and tractors all the time.

I am putting my girl in a V70 , she can like it or lump it......

Oppolock

Ex850R;65475 wroteI can vouch for Gippsland roads and conditions ....
I visit mates up from Welshpool and drives around there and surrounds involve wildlife including cows who may get out and rubbernecking city folk who drive down the windy dirt roads as if they own them. Milk tankers and tractors all the time.

I am putting my girl in a V70 , she can like it or lump it......

Rubber necking tourists are bad, and the bastards just prop dead in the middle of the road when faced with wildlife and roadkill FFS, Another issue is Recumbent bikes.. These Tards push their luck on narrow winding 2 lane roads pedalling in a prone position with a flag as the only form of early warning and they are usually wider than a bike too.

We get a lot of Cyclists on the roads and they are generally pretty good riding single file (Although you do get groups riding 2 and 3 wide) as well as caravanners etc but they tend to pick a speed around 80 ish and sit there.

But the chunk of road between Leongatha and Mirboo North is a narrow windy road with few places to overtake so I just relax and cruise with the traffic and enjoy the rage around me occasionally doling out heart failure and brown undies with the Alpine Horns I fitted to a few of my cars.

As for the V40? she wants something bigger but would drive mine gladly even though she wouldnt buy one.

So it looks like its down to 850, S70 or C70 and im leaning towards the Sedan S70.

Philia_Bear

Average S70 is an unreliable pos compared to the average s40
Find a 2004.5+ s40 and don't look back
Many to be found
Such an amazing car

Chris

"There are more p80s on the road so more accidents, where the s40 etc is less common so appears safer". The data on How Safe Is Your Car controls for exposure (i.e. the commonality factor), and if a car is too uncommon there won't be data. True that if you are comparing vastly different vehicles (Yaris vs 300C) that is invalid, but a P80 and S/V40 are not hugely different in size.

What it really comes down to is that the P80 chassis is from an older generation where no manufacturer had worked out how to manage offset frontal crash forces well. This is the typical head on crash scenario. Mercedes was onto this a bit quicker but Volvo wasn't too far behind. Grumpy, before you lock in a P80 have a look on YouTube for offset frontal crash tests and compare with the S/V40 and next gen S40/V50. You'll see the P80 series crumples between the A and B pillar (i.e. where the driver is), not what you want. The S/V, even the older ones, don't do this at the same speed.

Agree with Philia Bear - if budget allows get the next gen S40/V50. If you can't, P80 is too much of a risk. You clearly care about your daughter's wellbeing given all the effort you've put into teaching her to drive, why compromise that with a less safe car?

Vee_Que

Too much of a risk? Compared with the majority of cheap cars on the road... I don't agree with that. Its why they had sips etc.

Slowbrick

Chris;65490 wrote"There are more p80s on the road so more accidents, where the s40 etc is less common so appears safer". The data on How Safe Is Your Car controls for exposure (i.e. the commonality factor), and if a car is too uncommon there won't be data. True that if you are comparing vastly different vehicles (Yaris vs 300C) that is invalid, but a P80 and S/V40 are not hugely different in size.

What it really comes down to is that the P80 chassis is from an older generation where no manufacturer had worked out how to manage offset frontal crash forces well. This is the typical head on crash scenario. Mercedes was onto this a bit quicker but Volvo wasn't too far behind. Grumpy, before you lock in a P80 have a look on YouTube for offset frontal crash tests and compare with the S/V40 and next gen S40/V50. You'll see the P80 series crumples between the A and B pillar (i.e. where the driver is), not what you want. The S/V, even the older ones, don't do this at the same speed.

Agree with Philia Bear - if budget allows get the next gen S40/V50. If you can't, P80 is too much of a risk. You clearly care about your daughter's wellbeing given all the effort you've put into teaching her to drive, why compromise that with a less safe car?

You can look at youtube videos and stats all day long and never make a decision. Both I and my sister started off in 240's. I still have my 240 and my sister traded hers because it was costing her a little too much to run into the city everyday. If either of us had a serious head on crash we would no doubt be toast. What is far better than any ancap rating is the training received. My dad has been an inner city truck driver for the past 25 years. He gave me my driver training and from his experience I drive quite defensively. Couple that with the training I got as a motorcycle rider and I like to think I'm pretty well equipped. This is what new drivers need. They need the training that goes above the "regular". No one hopes for a serious car accident, and no one can predict when one can happen, but one can be a little more prepared to notice and react to the signs of a potential collision. ANCAP ratings are well and good, but plenty of people still get injured and killed in cars with above average ANCAP ratings.

Chris

I don't disagree, see my last sentence. I'm just saying if you're buying a car, buy the safest you can afford. All the training in the world won't prevent the unforeseen or make any human being 100% infallible. Doubly so for inexperienced young drivers.

Slowbrick

Chris;65494 wroteI don't disagree, see my last sentence. I'm just saying if you're buying a car, buy the safest you can afford. All the training in the world won't prevent the unforeseen or make any human being 100% infallible. Doubly so for inexperienced young drivers.

No doubt that is correct. I just see people get so hung up on ANCAP ratings and hear things like "dont worry this has abs" and "it will be fine it has stability control" while doing 110 down the road during a hurricane.

Vee_Que

Yep. Electronic aids put too many structurally weaker cars in the same star rating as cars with far stronger shells.

Oppolock

Slowbrick;65495 wrote
Chris;65494 wroteI don't disagree, see my last sentence. I'm just saying if you're buying a car, buy the safest you can afford. All the training in the world won't prevent the unforeseen or make any human being 100% infallible. Doubly so for inexperienced young drivers.
No doubt that is correct. I just see people get so hung up on ANCAP ratings and hear things like "dont worry this has abs" and "it will be fine it has stability control" while doing 110 down the road during a hurricane.

Slowbricks got the point...

ANCAP doesnt test for 100 kph offset frontal, and if you hit a tree sideways at 100 even if the passenger cell stood up youd be toast even with SIPS and curtain airbags.

Bigger IS better in highway frontals when it comes to euro cars where even in the late 70's pedals folded downwards and engines either went up or down and to the side, seat design and belt placement held you tight and stopped you from submarining under the belts while minimising neck injury and steering columns and wheels were designed to not impale you.

Also having seen more than my fair share of Highway carnage I feel a larger car, east west engine and Euro design gives the driver more chance to avoid the hard hit and protects them better from what happens.

My old 79 265 was light years ahead of ANYTHING id driven before and any of my S class W116's from the 74 to the 77 MY are better again even at nearly 2 ton with Self leveling suspension.

Add front wheel drive to the package and the ability/skill to use it and things get better again.

Personally id love to see her in a full chassis Range Rover with a bullbar, cage and HANS but I suspect the extra invincibility would get her mowing stuff down for the hell of it.....

Anyway, an interesting Aussie commercial from the 80's

Philia_Bear

Slowbrick;65495 wrote
Chris;65494 wroteI don't disagree, see my last sentence. I'm just saying if you're buying a car, buy the safest you can afford. All the training in the world won't prevent the unforeseen or make any human being 100% infallible. Doubly so for inexperienced young drivers.

No doubt that is correct. I just see people get so hung up on ANCAP ratings and hear things like "dont worry this has abs" and "it will be fine it has stability control" while doing 110 down the road during a hurricane.

Just to add into this
Driver training is more important than anything else
Bluntly
If wife had had more training she could have maintained speed when her tyres blew out and merged left instead of right and my friends would still be alive

Tpms is critical and easily added with an after market kit

I'd look at an early 2000 manual Subaru 2.0 forester like @Dauntless has
Stupidly reliable and not horribly slow and quite safe

Otherwise
I30's handle effing well and crash well
Something proven by the wifes i30

I mean just how the fuck do you walk away from a truck hitting your stationary car at 100kph?

Oppolock

Sorry to hear about that Bear and yep tyre pressure monitoring systems are inexpensive and easy enough to fit either internally or externally.

I annoy my kids (And Wife) by having car inspection day once a week anyway where they check tyre pressures, levels etc

They get to stand by their cars cleaning out rubbish (Some look like Mobile Macccas bins) cleaning glass while I check tyres, pressures and then supervise oil, coolant, trans and power steer, Light checks and most of them now run through the checks unaided.

The rules are that I will fix, rescue and maintain as well as supply fluids, oils etc so long as they follow the requests and the kids now eagle eye each others cars and pick on each other so competition = learning.

AND they like being a smartarse with their mates on stuff like checking the coolant mix/gravity lol

Last year we had four local 18 yr olds die in car crashes, 2 the year before and a further 2 in the previous few years in head on and single car incidents and driving past the spots and remaining memorials is sobering.

Finally we all drive with our headlights on in daylight.

PaddlerEd

Only time I've had a tyre go on me was in the middle lane of the motorway in the UK... Driving a 17 seat minibus loaded with kids and a trailer... Interesting moving to the hard shoulder... Colleague who was with me didn't know what had happened until we stopped on the shoulder and I was ringing the Police to ask for a back marker to reduce the chance of someone hitting me.

Dauntless

Oppolock;65569 wrotePersonally id love to see her in a full chassis Range Rover with a bullbar, cage and HANS but I suspect the extra invincibility would get her mowing stuff down for the hell of it.....

It would just end up on its roof.

Vee_Que

I doubt that... Rangies don't roll like hiluxes do.

Oppolock

Dauntless;65601 wrote
Oppolock;65569 wrotePersonally id love to see her in a full chassis Range Rover with a bullbar, cage and HANS but I suspect the extra invincibility would get her mowing stuff down for the hell of it.....
It would just end up on its roof.

Dont believe everything you see on Topgear lol

Had Rangies for 15 years and never even got close to rolling one, the Elk test is Moot coz you just mow stuff down.

Used to Pop up to "The Loop" in Gembrook to get some sideways action in the old Auto one and was test idiot (On point) for many a high country adventure run and even with a 2 inch lift and skinny 16 inch BFG all terrains she was still pretty solid.

Drove one as a daily when we first moved up here and wet or dry it was a good thing on the black stuff too and providing you keep the front end in good nick they dont mind quick direction changes either.

Very much maligned old girls.

Good driving pozzy too!

And the Toy

Ben

Great to see a Dad that is really serious about car control, learning and maintenance. It's the shit that's lacking from driver education these days. Kudos to you!

My vote is on S/V40, the S70 or the Magna/Verada. You could also really embarrass them and get an ex-pensioner Avalon which would be in mint condition and a steal. 850 is too old, C70 is too fancy/cool for teens.

Oppolock

Ben;65626 wroteGreat to see a Dad that is really serious about car control, learning and maintenance. It's the shit that's lacking from driver education these days. Kudos to you!

My vote is on S/V40, the S70 or the Magna/Verada. You could also really embarrass them and get an ex-pensioner Avalon which would be in mint condition and a steal. 850 is too old, C70 is too fancy/cool for teens.

Cheers Ben,

Pass on the Avalon lol

Might have a look at the Series 2 S40 next as I have exhausted the info available on the others, She came to me last night with a pic of a Black VR-X AWD Magna all smiles and happiness and having played with an Evo or 3 I almost considered it but as luck would have it the thing sold an hour later.

As it was we had a chat about piloting AWD cars and the perils inherent with traction and power splitting especially active splits and how this can bite you very hard in the bum even as an experienced driver.

So Front wheel drive is the Go and we can revisit the AWD thing after 3 years driving.

Yes I agree with the 850's unless you find something ultra low mileage but because it was very early days of Whiteblock and FWD development I reckon she could do better with an S70, The C70 would be a hard top IF she went down that path and the cool factor wouldnt change the way she drove it anyway as the 2 tone Interior was what grabbed her by the BooBoo lol

Dauntless

Vee_Que;65607 wroteI doubt that... Rangies don't roll like hiluxes do.

In good hands, I agree. In some of the ridiculous scenarios clueless drivers get themselves in, I wouldn't be so sure.

Forg

Slowbrick;65432 wroteLol white families. When I was getting my first car it what was Dad picked and if I didnt like it then he said "you can always go out and buy your own if you want". The choice is made for you when your Dad is ethnic.

Would you classify me as white?
Nanna's 2spd auto 1976 KE30 came up for sale in 1988 when I wanted a first car, Dad offered to go halves if I bought that (given it was so uncool yet one-owner in immaculate nick). :)

On the topic of safety ... *sigh* ... people are still buying into the idea that an old 2T tank with no crumple-zones is safer for the humans inside? A 2T tank with properly-engineered crumple-zones is definitely safer than a 1T car with safety zones, assuming decent handling & roadholding for both (eg. quite happy for Mrs Forg to have liked the concept of the VF wagon from a safety POV), but an old Rangie is a death-trap if you hit something & the scary handling makes that more likely.

That AWD thing & active splits and being a noob ... I don't know if I agree. Are you sure the Evo III thing wasn't a combo of moving grip PLUS lag PLUS something that was originally engineered for rally dorifto? All my experiences with road-car AWD have been very much embiggened grip under all circumstances, hamfisted driving (I don't do any other variety :) ) or otherwise. Biggest problem with an AWD Magna is that they're as quick as a Liberty GT or B4 of the same age, these days it probably doesn't mean much in relative terms but they're probably a bit underrated in terms of performance ... you might not want to buy something with quite as many fasts built in. :)

From what's been suggested & accepted, I reckon the S40 would be winner-winner-chicken-dinner, assuming availability. But adding what I just said about AWD, if it happens (and I know this is unlikely) that the best-condition one you find is AWD, I wouldn't at all be concerned about it.

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