AW55 finally died. Where to go from here?

jaykenneally

So you guys know my 2002 XC has been having trans issues for a while now, but the other day it finally called it quits.

At the moment, it has an Aisin AW55-50SN installed, with the A stamp valve body. V/B got rebuilt, and it died the next day. Rebuilt the V/B a second time, nothing.

I suspect it may have been my fault. The rebuilt V/B sucked up a lot of trans fluid (cos it was empty when installed) which resulted in the gear portion running low, possibly dry. Result is the loss of reverse, 1st and 2nd. I did have third for a while. But after using 3rd to drag the sorry ass back home again, it too has now died. You could smell the burning clutch disks, not to mention the smoke coming from the trans and the very black fluid (that had being bright red only 30 minutes prior).

You live you learn I guess.

So,

Option 1: Rebuild the gear portion
I have a spare AW55 FWD laying around, and I had a crack at tearing it apart today, not the hardest thing in the world. Lots of parts to keep track of and Im thankful I could do a practice one first, but it seems pretty straightforward. I have a pretty good attention to detail so Im confident with it. I found a rebuild kit with all the clutch discs, steels, a new filter, 3rd gear band and seals and so on on eBay for about $800 including postage. This option is more tempting as I have already invested $700 into a rebuilt valve body.

Option 2: Swap to the factory 5 speed manual
If I can find one, which shouldn't be too hard there are actually a few around at the moment, AWD is a bit harder but nonetheless it can be found. Also not too expensive, and the rest of the bits (shifter, shifter arms, pedal box, hydraulic system etc etc) can be easily found as well. Tempting, probably looking at about $2000-$2500 for that.

Option 3: Swap to an M66 6 speed manual
Found a few AWD ones also online but overseas. This is where I suck up to my friends dad who owns a freight company I guess. The gearbox itself isn't TOO expensive and is, they claim anyway, brand new. However, they say its for the P3 XC70 with either the T6 or D5 motor. But I figure these motors, especially the T6, come from the modular family and would share the same bolt pattern anyway, no? Finding one for a T5 could be interesting is all Im saying. My other concern is finding a 6 speed shifter for it, and the linkages. Im assuming the pedal box, clutch and hydraulic system can all be used off a 5 speed model. My other other concern is that the angle gear for my all wheel drive system might be incompatible. Borrowed the VIN number from Marks old V70R (2004 model) which has an M66 and put that in VIDA, which tells me the angle gear is different and has a different part number than the one in my car, cos mine is a Volvo system and the newer ones are Haldex. Obviously the M66 was designed for Haldex but Im not sure if this would necessarily mean they are incompatible? Im thinking this would be at least 3 grand, and not convinced I really want to put that kind of money into it. But considering to pay a professional to rebuild my stupid auto is at least 3k, its a tempting option.

My other concern with both manual conversions is driveshafts. Im assuming the current auto ones won't fit, so allowing an extra about $500 for new driveshafts. But finding ones for an M56 probably not an issue, so Im hoping (praying) the M66 ones will be the same. Cos V70R driveshafts for the M66 are not cheap at all.

As I said, option one is the most tempting because its the easiest, cheapest and Ive already invested money down that path, and I figure it should buy me a few years at least and if it dies again, Ill be more experienced to tackle a manual conversion, hopefully. But, on the flip side, I might be able to get some of that $700 back and its not a big deal in the big picture anyway, especially if converting to manual guarantees a long future of reliability.

All thoughts and opinions appreciated. No, crushing it or selling it is not an option.

Vee_Que

So your expensive vb arrived and it died? I guess you can rebuild the box. But 5 speed swap would be better in the long term. Though I don't know how you got the fluid level wrong if you checked it after fitting. While running and after going into reverse and drive. The torque converter uses most of the oil.

jaykenneally

Yeah, died the next day. Look all I know is we checked the fluid and it wasnt even on the dipstick. I overfilled it too, predicting that it would lose some in the V/B but it still ran out. We checked it multiple times, kept having to top it up a few times but I kept an eye on it. It must have dropped too low at some stage. We only drove it for about 40 minutes and about 5 kilometres haha. Im surprised it died. No leaks anywhere either.

I feel manual would be better in the long term as well, but then again with a rebuilt V/B and rebuilt gearbox and regular fluid changes AND a cooler, it should give me at least 10 years (going on the fact it lasted 13 years with no changes and towing a boat)

iceton1975

CALL ME LOVER BOY! JUST REMOVED GOOD BOX THIS WEEK FROM 2002 XC70 $-)

Ex850R

But why bother ^
That manual one for sale will cost you less in th elong run , swap all the bits off yours , make a good car and keep all parts off the donor car and make a trailer/camper out of the car left over.
Seeing as i am doing this to my wagon/s we can do the trailer , i am have the skillz.

Anthony

Conversion to manual - Thinking from the engine management computer/processor point of you,
is there any input/output signals issues to overcome when the processor thinks you have an auto, but you no longer do.

In years gone by, the manual versions had a different processor / part #.

I welcome some education on this.

jaykenneally

@Ex850R‌ yeah I wouldn't bother fitting an unknown auto from another car, would rather rebuild my own, that way it will at least be like a new trans again, somewhat. Manual swap is tempting as is that 10k XC70R. But I don't have 10k and I doubt he's gonna come down to any reasonable sum that I can afford, so Id have to do a man conversion myself or stick with the auto.

Wouldn't have a clue @Anthony, I think you can disconnect the auto and the engine will still run fine, but it will give you error messages because it thinks there is a fault in the auto. There is a software package in VIDA which is called, I believe, Auto Trans Delete or something like that, which effectively erases the software for the auto from the car, which will mean it won't give you any transmission fault codes. I figure thats how it works anyway. Its not the first manual conversion in the world to be done on this car so it would be possible.

Vee_Que

They aren't that simple as discussed in the s60 manual conversion thread.

Tzantushka

Jeremy,
Sorry to hear your troubles.
I reckon the booty call from @iceton1975 is looking good.

Manual swaps on P2s are possible but tricky.
M66 manual swaps require specific drive shafts which I understand are only available through Volvo = $,$$$
(i.e. if you can't find a 2nd hand source)

If I put on my 'economic goggles' - agree option 1 is the best.
Especially since you don't want to move onto something else.

jamesinc

Anthony;50166 wroteConversion to manual - Thinking from the engine management computer/processor point of you,
is there any input/output signals issues to overcome when the processor thinks you have an auto, but you no longer do.

In years gone by, the manual versions had a different processor / part #.

I welcome some education on this.

@Rob @clinton I believe I heard from you guys at one point that the auto ECU with a manual trans actually works really well?

jaykenneally

Digging up this thread again because I can't believe I'm back here again.

So those of you who haven't kept up. Ordered the rebuild parts for the trans. Spent over 3 weeks removing the trans and rebuilding it a few times. After the last time it gave us hope. It drove! All 5 forward gears worked and reverse worked. However after maybe 30 minutes of driving, I started to feel 1st, 2nd and Reverse were no longer gripping as well as they were. It continued to get worse and those gears are now basically unusable. They slip too much. Reverse is a bit better than the forward gears, I can reverse, but only on flat ground. 1st and 2nd don't really move at all. However 3rd does work and is used to move the car around the farm it sits at.

Due to some other life problems that need to be dealt with first, it is not possible for me to continue with this car at this stage, I don't have the time or the finances to do so. I returned the registration to VicRoads for a refund, >$400 coming my way soon which is something. I will be looking into fixing it up at the end of this year/early 2016.

As I still (yes, still) do not want to scrap this car, I am looking into a manual conversion. It is not possible for me to afford all the parts at this stage, not all in one hit anyway, but I am just looking into it at the moment. I've read quite a few threads on manual swaps into P2 cars and it has been done, although no doubt with challenges.

The reality is that I'm not at all interested in using the AW55. It has proven to be an unreliable transmission. Its entirely possible I made a mistake when I rebuilt it, but as it did drive for a short time I wouldn't concede defeat so quickly. In any case, I'm not willing to remove this transmission and put it or any other auto back on. I'm well and truly over it haha. So manual time!

I have read, which Im unsure is true, that the main concern with the ECU (in USA anyway) was that it would think the car is in neutral and force a 4,000rpm rev limiter. My car doesn't do this, in neutral it will rev to the red line. The other thing I want to try is disconnecting the auto from the car completely. If I do that and the motor continues to run then at least there shouldn't be too many input/output signals that need to be overcome just to make the car run.

In either case, I refuse to do a manual swap if it means I lose the AWD system. So whatever manual goes on here has to be an AWD, whether that means its an M58 or anything else I don't know. I realise the bum draggers are a lot more common. And I also realise that my AWD is fairly slow and useless and sometimes is 50+ kilos of metal that chews through fuel, but I still like having it. It makes a huge difference and nicer drive compared to my FWD P80 V70.

I am concerned with a manual swap, especially with the M66, about compatibility with the other parts of the car, so I have listed the parts I am concerned about and their respective part numbers, for comparison with what VIDA says goes with each manual transmission.

Angle Gear
36000338
Driveshaft, Left
36000522
Driveshaft, Right
36000536
Master Cylinder
86002374
Rear Engine/Gearbox Mount
9475770

So we're basically re-looking at options 2 and 3 from above.

Option 2: Swap to the factory 5 speed manual (M58)
I'm confident I will be able to source this gearbox, between the 4 Volvo wreckers I can think of off the top of my head. Also, using this gearbox makes life easier in regards to all the other parts, the flywheel, shifter, shifter cables and pedal box. Im pretty sure many of those parts with the exception of the shifter would be compatible with the M66. I worked out I would likely need the following parts (excluding the flywheel & shifter stuff).
Angle Gear
36000338 <-- Same as mine.
Driveshaft, Left
8252039
Driveshaft, Right
8252055
Master Cylinder
30777995
Gearbox Mount
9475770 <--- Says same as mine which I'm surprised as I thought the manuals would have a different mount.

Option 3: Swap to an M66 AWD 6 speed manual
As stated above, there are lots I found overseas in Europe. All from diesel engines though. It is too my knowledge the diesels share the same block/bell housing pattern, basically so Volvo could share transmissions between cars, but I don't actually know the reality of this. All the transmissions in VIDA between different cars all use different part numbers. To me its too risky if we are having to freight it here and find it doesn't fit, won't be able to return that haha. I get a lot more concerned with an M66 AWD swap into the P2 just because its not a common combination to begin with. Realistically, and this probably applies to the factory 5 speed as well, I would need a donor car to be completely confident that I have everything. However, I think I can guesstimate I need the following parts (again, excluding flywheel & shifter stuff).
Angle Gear
36000340
Driveshaft, Left
8602577
Driveshaft, Right
8602579
Master Cylinder
30777995
Gearbox Mount
9475770 <--- Again it shares the same part number but I swear I read on a thread post that they are different. I think they have an updated part number now but the fact that they used to share it is a bit strange?

I am keeping my eyes open if any cheap manual cars come up for sale, or if they turn up at the wreckers. As I say a donor car would make life easier with either trans.

BodenM;55643 wroteWait for a manual P2R to show up at the salvage auctions (could even make your money back by parting it out for the motor, interior and whatever else is still good) or grab one from the US, Nick from Re-Volv should be able to help source one for you.

@BodenM - Yes I'd love for a P2R to show up at the auctions but when they do, Im competing with the dealers and the wreckers and they always go for a lot of money. As you say hopefully I can part it out and get that back, but its still an upfront cost I can't really afford haha. Im hoping just a standard P2 manual AWD will show up, as it may be within my realms of affordability. Even if I have to buy a front drive car and then the AWD trans separately, at least the donor gives me a flywheel, shifter, cables, and so on, although I probably can still source those parts individually and save myself the hassle of pulling apart another car. Ideally I need a P2 AWD.

Thanks for the link to Re-Volv, looks good and may be handy later. As I say, can't afford it right now :(

Long post, sorry. I'll be checking out my XC and seeing if it runs with the auto disconnected whenever I drive up that way next. Im ready for advice if anyone has any and it is appreciated. I just want the damn thing to work now haha.

Thanks again guys,
Jeremy

Philia_Bear

rebuild not done right, either an issue with the pump or line pressure solenoid from symptoms you describe

egads (she/her)

Option 2 is realistic and would be cheaper by a long way.

jaykenneally

Philia_Bear;55651 wroterebuild not done right, either an issue with the pump or line pressure solenoid from symptoms you describe

Probably. Can I be bothered fixing it? Not really. Will probably donate the trans to a guy I know who likes tinkering with them haha.

egads;55654 wroteOption 2 is realistic and would be cheaper by a long way.

Yeah its the option I'm most tempted by although the M66 would be nice, the extra gear doesn't equate to lower highway revs iirc so I'm not too fussed. We'll see whats around when the time comes to do some parts buying!

jamesinc

Rebuild again. Do it until you get it right.

LIFE LESSONS.

Ex850R

jamesinc;55661 wroteRebuild again. Do it until you get it right.

LIFE LESSONS.

Yes , so close!

Vee_Que

Philia_Bear;55651 wroterebuild not done right, either an issue with the pump or line pressure solenoid from symptoms you describe

He didn't have the full of metal shavings torque converter rebuilt. I Think that's most if the issue. Plus not doing it with someone with experience who offered help.

jaykenneally

jamesinc;55661 wroteRebuild again. Do it until you get it right.

LIFE LESSONS.

Ex850R;55663 wrote
jamesinc;55661 wroteRebuild again. Do it until you get it right.

LIFE LESSONS.
Yes , so close!

I am close, and I have been tempted to take it off and rebuild it again but I think Im admitting defeat with it to be honest... The trans is still on the car and I haven't spent a cent on it recently so I guess I can decide as time goes on. But the AW55 is proving to be a bit shit and I miss driving a manual anyway haha.

Vee_Que;55664 wrote
Philia_Bear;55651 wroterebuild not done right, either an issue with the pump or line pressure solenoid from symptoms you describe
He didn't have the full of metal shavings torque converter rebuilt. I Think that's most if the issue. Plus not doing it with someone with experience who offered help.

Look man, at the moment Im glad I didn't invest that money into it. The car has done not even 15 kilometres and has been run for maybe an hour tops, so I don't think it was enough time to wear down the clutch packs down to nothing. But I don't really know as I haven't taken it apart yet and probably won't be taking it apart. It could be a lot of things. But quite honestly at this stage of the game Im not really looking into it. I just want to put a manual on it in all honesty.

Vee_Que

It literally is, the oil will go straight through the pump and then into everything. Just because you don't think it will doesn't mean it won't. If you're unsure, why not ring a transmission shop and ask them too?

If you replaced the same thickness as per the manual steels and clutches, and you had not too much play in the packs assembled, it shouldn't have been an issue. But you also didn't get anyone who has done similar autos to look at your work before assembling... Which had been offered!

Anthony

All this reminds me of a rebuild of a Laycock de Nomanville overdrive for a Volvo 240. Lots of time, money and energy, but never did find the culprit component to get it perfect. And with the freaky cost of wasting another gasket set I wasn't going to try yet again.
That's when I called it quits and converted to a Supra 5 speed, with no regrets.