Jackson
Hi guys, I have an 850 T5. I have upgraded my turbo with a 19T CHRA, and have a manual boost controller set to give me around 14 psi. I've also thrown a set of white injectors in. Now, to the point: I just paid $400 for a custom '3 inch' downpipe and got no noticeable performance improvement. I should mention that my '3 inch' downpipe actually starts off as a fairly long section of 2.5 inch pipe. About 90 degrees cut from a doughnut. Does this mean I've paid for a far inferior product, compared to other custom or aftermarket alternatives, or is this a fairly standard practice?
I would like to think that I have future-proofed the car for when it gets a tune, and that maybe a better downpipe doesn't make a difference just yet. Was this to be expected, or did I get a dud?
Cheers.
Ex850R
Well , if its not 3" then its not a 3" downpipe? If the 19T outlet is 2.5" which sounds right , then a reducer there up to 3" is what you want , maybe you could ask em what they did and why and if not happy see about a refund?
A Swedish made DP and exhaust isnt that expensive compared to what you paid for just the DP i reckon.
Ben
If the turbo outlet is 2.5" then you want it to be 3" as soon as it leaves the turbo, heading into a 3"cat and then into the rest of your exhaust system.
As for feeling it straightaway, I don't believe you'll feel much until you have a tune that takes advantage of it. You might even get a CE light.
Ex850R
Also , beware that the 19T is known for boost spikes with more boost.
A good tune will help to control it , use the tune and not a MBC when you get a tune.
ARD do great , cheap tunes , they ( Lucky at ARD ) sell 19T wheels as well that are modified to try and control the compressor surge that gives the problem.
You may want green injectors too.
Any pictures of the beast?
Where are you?
Also , @AshDVS are dealer for an ECU tuning company that can customise a tune. Victorian based.
VP Tuning offer those Swedish exhausts i mentioned plus the tunes to go with em too.
Jackson
OK. Thanks for your input guys. I was organising the job over the phone, quickly before work. I may have unwittingly given them permission to do a job I didn't really want. Like you guys said, it's gotta go from 2.5'' to 3'', and so I told the guy I was happy for him to start with 2.5'' but to go to 3'' as soon as he could. I didn't mean the entire bend. Man, this sucks. Feels like I've just thrown away $400.
Vee_Que
That does suck. Did you only do the downpipe or the whole exhaust? You're less likely to notice a difference with just the downpipe. But should make more boost without changing anything even just doing that I think.
Jackson
Snoopy: I'm near Brisbane. You southern guys seem luckier in terms of the availability and price of Volvo stuff. I am actually planning to tune the car myself because I'm a tightarse, and have a spare car (an old beat up 240). I will be careful. I'm hoping to get enough flow out of the white injectors with a modified regulator. Cosmetically the 850 is a stock silver T5, and a bit rough, so not worth photos, but I will try to get some pictures of the downpipe this weekend.
Vee_Que: Just the downpipe. More boost isn't noticeable, but I am just using the Volvo gauge. The mechanic took the boost gauge line off the vacuum tree, and used that barb for his own gauge, so that I could get an actual reading when he dynoed it. He mustve wrecked the rubber elbow, because now it blows off under boost and my boost needle doesnt move.
Oh yeah, it dynoed at 130 kW which was very dissapointing given the mods I have done. I never had a baseline, but my butt dyno tells me that I have made small gains since when I first got it.
Ex850R
If i recall the pipe is that size already as standard , maybe 2.25 , but hardly worth it goung 2.5.... Bad luck there.
Mark at VP Tuning did have second hand stainless Swedish pipes.
See if they will fix it , its hardly what you would expect and they shouldnt have done it.
But.....
Keep us informed?
Where are you?
Jackson
Ok, thanks. I will try to see what I can do about it tomorrow. I'm in Caboolture.
AshDVS
Any chance you can post some pics of your downpipe - we'll all then know what we're looking at.
I don't think that there should be a need to buy a downpipe from Sweden sprinkled in magic fairy dust or anything like that just yet :) - you should also note that routing for a downpipe may vary a little between LHD and RHD cars, not massively though.
If you absolutely must by a downpipe made overseas, the Ferrita one is very good.
See -
http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=7000&From=SEK&To=AUD
$400.00 for a decent downpipe only doesn't sound that expensive, but still frustrating if there hasnt been a net gain.
There are some great exhaust fabricators locally (and I am sure in the wider country as a whole) that produce far better products than any 'kit' exhaust you'd be able to buy. Of course, this is not to say there is anything wrong at all with some of the systems you may bring in, but having someone who knows what they're doing will always yield a better fit and result than a kit intended to fit your car and a few variations thereof.
Here's a bit of further information on injectors (it's rough and needs some more cross-referencing), I posted a decent link the other day to a big heap of injector data-
Bosch Orange
p/n: 0280150785
310cc/min at 3 BAR. 315cc/min at 3.8 BAR
850R auto and 850T5
Bosch White
p/n: 0280155766
347cc/min at 3 BAR
850R manual in european/oz market. P80 C70/S70/V70 T5 cars.
Bosch Blue
p/n: 0280156127
440cc/min at 43.5psi (3 BAR) or 410cc/min at 2.7 BAR
Ford
p/n: 0280155830
395cc/min at 3.8 BAR
Volvo
Bosch Green
p/n: 0280155968
450cc/min at 43.5 psi (3 BAR). 465cc/min at 3.8 BAR
Single slot for retainer
Ex850R
From memory Ash , the pipes Mark had were about 1200 here so with a cat and muffler included it makes a 400 DP ( wether done right or not ) a bit exxy , it would want to be stainless too.
As standard the 19T in the later R manuals had green injectors so that should be a good starting point with a tune.
Ash , do your guys have tunes for 4.3 as well?
Jackson
I just bought the white injectors, so I will stick with them for a bit. I have read that they flow the same as blues at 3.8 bar.
Here are two quick pictures I snapped before jumping on the train. Will try for some better ones tomorrow.
You can see that the 3" only starts at the straight section.
CamZH
In my non expert opinion that looks pretty clean.
$400 sounds cheap compared to the $1445 listed by VP tuning !
clinton
I am not an expert in this area either, but the OBX 3 inch straight flange down pipe seems to be far from 3 inches in the bends. It is meant to be mandrel bent, but it does not have a nice wide curve like your one does. And it doesn't fit well on our RHD cars.
I wouldn't be too worried, but if you are unhappy you should definitely let them know. As a service provider, I want my customers to tell me when they are not happy so that a) I can fix it and get a happy customer, and b) don't do the same thing to the next customer.
I didn't notice too much of a change with my new exhaust (performance wise) when at stock power levels. I think it becomes more important when you start increasing boost pressure.
timbo
Either way its going to be an improvement over the downpipe you removed,especially if you replace the factory cat converter but they may have supplied a 2.5inch as a 3inch needs some small mods to fit rhd models . Are you running the angle flange, conical or straight exhaust housing? That may have something to do with why you only got a 2.5 inch pipe fitted. It's a little risky If you're running the injectors and 19t without a tune on a stock ecu. At 14psi you're probably not going to see the effect of the downpipe as much as at higher boost levels. Even at 14psi you may be risking the factory rods with the 19t.
Anthony
Jackson, had a good look at the first exhaust pic, all things considered (clearance etc) it good enough, main thing is they welded the larger dia pipe over the small dia as soon as they could.
- In my experience its a high flow (larger core) intercooler which made the biggest difference.
An air/fuel ratio meter indicator should be on your essential list since your changing injectors and other parameters. Even the Jaycar kits are fine, its the wideband sensor that costs the most, and an exhaust shop can weld on a M18 nut/bung if a port is not available.
Ex850R
That doesnt look too bad ( notwithstanding the welds ...ughh) they probably thought the easiest way was elbow before transition to larger dia and they used schedule pipe rather than tube so that is good. ( probably sch10 which would be 2,5mm wall thickness )
There is room there for a 3" elbow , they could have made that work and as a bend is where restriction of flow occurs then it woukd have been ideal but this is what you have , not bad considering.
The mentioned OBX. DP is tube afaik so not robust.
How far back did they go?
Is the cat a high flow one?
Removing the large 'suitcase' muffler for a free flow one will help.
Ben
Yep, doesn't look bad. I wouldn't be disappointed with that.
Jackson
Hey guys, that's really encouraging. I'm glad I held off on making a phone call until I got some other opinions. I will accept it as it is, but it is a lesson learned in clear communication if I want the ideal job. I have already ordered a wideband setup. It's on its way.
I haven't had a look, but I believe it's to just after the second bend. I'm not sure if they put a cat in. Can you tell from the photos? I mean, I can see the O2 sensor, but I thought there were two. The job was explained to my sister and so I don't actually know what it is apart from referencing those photos, at the moment.
For those wondering, it is a straight flange.
Thanks for the helpful comments. :)
Ex850R
Good there is a socket for the O2 , they coukd have put another in for the Wideband sensor if you knew beforehand but could get one welded insitu possibly ( hopefully!?)
I really got to start fabricating some downpipes!
I need to do one for my R , got to visit a mate , pick up some elbows and pipe , pinch a bottle of argon off him and do some nice purged welds. Its been a while!
