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  • The Tremec T5 gearbox swap FAQ, OZ edition, v1.02 (updated 2022-09-03)

pigdog

https://ozvolvo.org/discussion/comment/203968#Comment_203968

same haha

I bought a El falcon box off another member who already did the input shaft.

everything we read was that the 6 cylinder El falcon box is the one you need for a 240

also I thought we didn't want the v8 boxes because the ratios are horrible for a 240

The issue with the old T5 thread was it was 18 pages long, and it was an ongoing work in progress. Unless you read the whole thread, it was easy to miss the parts where things went awry, like in the middle of the thread when people bought Ford 6-pot boxes, did the tooth count, ordered an input shaft, then discovered that the US type input shafts of the same type (i.e. needle roller or tapered bearing) and tooth count didn't fit in those Ford 6 boxes. Or when they ordered a needle roller input shaft and had a box with a tapered bearing input shaft.

The US experience has been that the V8 ratios work fine with +t redblocks.

The 2.95:1 first gear in most V8 T5s is a bit taller than the M46 first:

1st - 2.95:1

2nd - 1.94:1

3rd - 1.34:1

4th - 1.00:1

5th - 0.63:1

One of the XR8s boxes had these ratios:

1st - 3.35:1   

2nd - 1.99:1   

3rd - 1.33:1   

4th - 1.00:1   

5th - 0.68:1

That said, the Volvo M46 box has these ratios:

1st - 3.71:1 or 4.03:1

2nd - 2.16:1

3rd - 1.37:1

4th - 1.00:1

Overdrive - 0.79:1

So IMHO and experience, the M46 first is far too short anyway.

PS: ETA - Initially I was confused about where the recommendations for the Ford 6 pot box came from in the old thread, after the experience of regulars proved it's clearly not the easiest way to do this swap. Sure enough, on page 17 this 'recommendation' came from somebody who posted here twice, 5 years ago, and offered to answer "any questions about T5 gearboxes", didn't, and hasn't been back since August 2017. Maybe he's been too busy changing syncros after using 10-30 gear oil in his WC boxes.....

      Major Ledfoot

      https://ozvolvo.org/discussion/comment/203976#Comment_203976

      The issue with the old T5 thread was it was 18 pages long, and it was an ongoing work in progress. Unless you read the whole thread, it was easy to miss the parts where things went awry, like in the middle of the thread when people bought Ford 6-pot boxes, did the tooth count, ordered an input shaft, then discovered that the US type input shafts of the same type (ie needle roller or tapered bearing) and tooth count didn't fit in those Ford 6 boxes. Or when they ordered a needle roller input shaft and had a box with a tapered bearing input shaft.

      The US experience has been that the V8 ratios work fine with +t redblocks.

      The 2.95:1 first gear in most V8 T5s is a bit taller than the M46 first:

      1st - 2.95:1

      2nd - 1.94:1

      3rd - 1.34:1

      4th - 1.00:1

      5th - 0.63:1

      One of the XR8s boxes had these ratios:

      1st - 3.35:1   

      2nd - 1.99:1   

      3rd - 1.33:1   

      4th - 1.00:1   

      5th - 0.68:1

      That said, the Volvo M46 box has these ratios:

      1st - 3.71:1 or 4.03:1

      2nd - 2.16:1

      3rd - 1.37:1

      4th - 1.00:1

      Overdrive - 0.79:1

      So IMHO and experience, the M46 first is far too short anyway.

      I'm not sure what type of input shaft my T5 box has but it's an El falcon box with the mustang Input shaft installed.

      I think I will still go ahead with the swap I already have everything ready to go

        @pigdog - As long as the input shaft is 7.18 inches long from transmission face forwards, it should be okay to use with one of the off-the-shelf kits. If the spigot end of the input shaft isn't 17mm OD, you'll need a different one to the one listed above, with an OD of 35mm to fit into the Volvo crank and an ID of whatever the spigot end of your input is.

        Not sure which kit you have, so to cover them all: The DeeWorks kit has its own input shaft retainer flange which fits into the M45 bellhousing, and the instructions with that kit tell how to re-shim the end float on the input shaft. The VQ and BNE plates use the original T5 input shaft retainer.

          I'll have to measure it all

          the T5 conversion I bought consists of :

          EL T5 box with "correct" input shaft installed

          correct pilot bearing for that shaft

          m47 bellhousing and sleeve for T5

          VQ adaptor plate

          modified flat flywheel

          VQ clutch and pressure plate kit.

          hopefully its all good haha

          once I'm back from nationals the car will be going in the shed to attack it all

          I have the vq plate and an el box. Considering the price of v8 boxes at 1k a go I'll keep ehat I have. So I need a 7.18 inch shaft with a needle bearing? What splines?

          Edited, the pic with the box patterns and shaft sizes is wrong, cosworth use 23 spline not 10.

            Edited, re read the guide

            sloth

            Edited, the pic with the box patterns and shaft sizes is wrong, cosworth use 23 spline not 10.

            That's in the old thread, not this one. It's a Dellow graphic and table. It's so vague and non-specific that it's confusing and has inaccuracies like that, making it useless AFAIC. That is why I deliberately didn't use that table in this thread. For example, there's more than one version of a "Group A Commodore" - there's two Group A versions alone just for the VL - and it doesn't mention how the T5 in one of them - assembly 1352-187, GM p/n 92034927 - is a NWC box. Or how that oft-used term "Ford V8 Mustang" can refer to any one of a dozen different assemblies, with differing input shaft lengths, spline counts, bearing types, spigot bearing requirements, tooth counts, ratios, and extension housings.

              Thanks mate. So I have a lead on a commo v6 t5. I've just unpacked my kit and I have an input shaft In it also. If I post pics can you tell me what it is?

              Get pics of -

              the tag on the boxthe maincase part numberthe extension housing part numbermeasurement of the input shaft length
              Major Ledfoot

              @pigdog - As long as the input shaft is 7.18 inches long from transmission face forwards, it should be okay to use with one of the off-the-shelf kits. If the spigot end of the input shaft isn't 17mm OD, you'll need a different one to the one listed above, with an OD of 35mm to fit into the Volvo crank and an ID of whatever the spigot end of your input is.

              Not sure which kit you have, so to cover them all: The DeeWorks kit has its own input shaft retainer flange which fits into the M45 bellhousing, and the instructions with that kit tell how to re-shim the end float on the input shaft. The VQ and BNE plates use the original T5 input shaft retainer.

              I may have a problem.

              the input shaft in the falcon box isn't as long as you said it needs to be.

                Ayup; a 167mm Ford 6 shaft. What is the tag number on the box?

                the guy I got it off bought and installed this Shaft so guessing he got the wrong one?

                it's the correct spline for the VQ clutch

                there's no tag on the box.

                he told me it was a El falcon box and I confirmed that by the size of the box

                  So pics. Box tag reads 94DA 7003 AA, ef or el world class box. Has wc cup for layshaft bearing.

                  It has a 10 spline, short, taper bearing input shaft. I pulled it out to check. The dia of the cog is identical to my shaft in my kit, and it is 23 teeth on both. However my kit is a needle type shaft.

                  I cant find a case part number. Back housing is in lowest pic. It had a 6cyl bellhousing.

                  pigdog

                  the guy I got it off bought and installed this Shaft so guessing he got the wrong one?

                  it's the correct spline for the VQ clutch

                  there's no tag on the box.

                  he told me it was a El falcon box and I confirmed that by the size of the box

                  Was it ever fitted to a Volvo? Did you buy it from someone on Oz Volvo?

                      @sloth - 0552-012 / 94DA-7003-AA was used in the EF XR6.

                      Pic #2 of your post above is a needle roller input shaft, for sure.

                      Pic #3 - Which shaft is that? What are the rest of the numbers on it?

                      Pic #4 - That same extension housing (903) is used on the EL V8 boxes.

                        Major Ledfoot

                        @sloth - 0552-012 / 94DA-7003-AA was used in the EF XR6.

                        Pic #2 of your post above is a needle roller input shaft, for sure.

                        Pic #3 - Which shaft is that? What are the rest of the numbers on it?

                        Pic #4 - That same extension housing (903) is used on the EL V8 boxes.

                        Same needle shaft just from another angle. It's a Ford v8 shaft by size etc. Can I use this box? Or do I need a commo v6 one? Could I get that shaft machined out to take the taper bearing?

                          @sloth writes:

                          It's a Ford v8 shaft by size etc.

                          I presume you mean the needle roller shaft is the Ford V8 size?

                          Can I use this box? Or do I need a commo v6 one?

                          If you want to use that box, you'll need to get the input shaft lengthened. Might be an idea to give Gear Repair Australia a call and see how much that costs these days.

                          If you want to use a V6 Commodore box, you'll need the extension housing and top cover/shift rod from the Ford box so you won't need rear seat passengers to change gears. ? (The Commodore V6 extension housing puts the shifter at 23 inches + plate from bell).

                          Could I get that shaft machined out to take the taper bearing?

                          You can, but it will be quite weak and it still won't fit, because the gear helical angle is different between the gear on the cluster in your box and the gear on the input shaft, although the tooth count might be the same. This is why I wrote [8] above and recommended the use of V8 Ford boxes, which don't have this hassle since V8 boxes use an 070 cluster, thus there''s a wide range of inputs which drop straight in without problems..... hmm, maybe I ought to add all that to [8].....

                          The least expensive solution if you want to use that gearbox is to get the input shaft lengthened.

                          Major Ledfoot

                          https://ozvolvo.org/discussion/comment/204024#Comment_204024

                          Was it ever fitted to a Volvo? Did you buy it from someone on Oz Volvo?

                          I bought it all off @Ravanelli it was never installed in a Volvo it was meant to go into his 240T

                              pigdog

                              https://ozvolvo.org/discussion/comment/204027#Comment_204027

                              I bought it all off @Ravanelli it was never installed in a Volvo it was meant to go into his 240T

                              Ah, so you're in a similar boat to @sloth. Gear Repair Australia group buy time?

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