Hi,

First post!! Hope you can help



I have attached a link of a engine noise that occurs only after a hot start when the car has been driven for 1.0 hr or so and then left to sit for ½ hr or so before restart. Really noticeable in summer particularly, but also occurs in winter.This noise is not present on a cold start.

It seems to be coming from the VVT cams where the timing belt is, however it is hard to pin point exactly.

I have changed the VVT solenoid on the exhaust camshaft and also replaced the cam position sensor recently. I have not changed the solenoid on the intake camshaft.

My thinking is this: Car has 203,000kms but runs really well. No oil usage between changes (5000kms) very good condition overall and whilst the car has high kms, i'm looking to keep for many years as I had just had the transmission and angle gear replaced.

1: Possible solenoid failure on the intake camshaft? If so is there any way to check before purchasing a new one? Is it ok to disconnect solenoid and run the car to see if sound disappears? If the sound disappears does that mean that the solenoid is at fault or the CVVT hubs?

2: CVVT pulley and actuators are not getting the required oil pressure on hot start hence the rattle occurs until normal oil pressure is obtained?? Is there any way to check oil pressure on these vehicle? Does VIDA perform this function?

3: Possible starter motor engaging for too long only on hot start? How do I check?

4: Any other advice??

Thanks
Hi Ash,
10w-40 full synthetic Nulon
I would stick to Penrite.
Could be your problem , it was my first thought , oil no good....
In the same way that they're funny with spark plugs - the turbo 5cyl engines are fickle with oil too.
Nothing seems wrong with grade/weight but synth is a must and I'd go with a Motul, Mobil 1 or Penrite.

It's very hard to hear from the video, but my first guess is an oiling issue.

I assume engine temps aren't through the roof or anything like that?
All the temps are fine, no issue at all. Noise only occurs on a hot start after the car has already been run for a while ie 1-2 hrs and then let sit for 1/2 hr or so then restarted. Really noticeable in Summer?? when we have high ambient temps?

As for the oil, I thought Nulon was an good oil (mechanics recommendation) and I have used this for a while? I will try another brand (same weight) to see if it makes any difference.

If the change to another oil does not make the difference what would be your next step?? Possible oil pressure test (gauge),

I had another listen on another PC - it didnt sound much different.

Nulon products are typically fine - I dont think its a case of them being 'bad', I'd still try another brand and see if there is a different.

A little left-field, what oil filter are you using?

Oil pressure is well worth checking too.
It sounds like an internal engine rattle/oiling issue to me though.
What about the O rings in the sump , its a problem on the whiteblocks , mine gets tappy after a while idling and hot , goes away when the pump pushes enough oil up to counteract the worn O rings.
Crappy job i hear , best way is to lift the motor up off mounts and get under it , esp with the AWD it may be real fun..
It sounds 100% like cam buckets to me

The cam buckets need to be pulled and let sit in ATF for a week then flushed with carb cleaner and soaked in diesel before being washed in 0w30 oil and then re-installed

I'd consider switching over to the penrite HPR5 5w40 for winter and then HPR10 10w50 for summer
I gots to do this too^ ........
Ash- Volvo oil filter in use.

Snoopy - With the o rings i have read alot of info on this. Most instances people have had the "low oil pressure" idiot light come on when idling and with some of the posts they have carried out the "o ring" chnage etc and it hasn't fixed the issue, but is something i'm not counting out yet!!

Philia bear - Are you referring to the CVVT Pulleys on the camshaft? Sorry if i'm not correct here. if it i s the pulleys, from your post I assume they need a good clean up to get rid of sludge??

Either way I think i'm lookingat some time at the mechanics $$$$.

Does anyone know how hard it is to fit an oil pressure gauge temporarily to the white block? If any "how to guides". If I could do this at least i can get readings at idle and at speed and compare. if the readings at idle are low I could prob assume Snoopy's post and chage the o rings first before any work up top of the engine.

Sound like a good plan?? Further more if you weere a mechanic and asked to diagnose this problem for acustomers care what steps would you take first?

I'll have a look and see if there is a way to get the oil pressure from an OBD interface, that would be cheaper and easier than an oil gauge.

Might be something in VIDA too.
Oil pressure is idiot light only (7-10psi)

The fitting is in the middle of the block and is easily accessible from under the car reaching up between the block and the cradle

its M14x1.5

Its easy to get a bushing to convert the m14 to 1/8th NPT and then use a VDO dual port sender that has both the idiot light and the gauge fitting so you can have the idiot light and a proper gauge

I'm not talking about the vvt I'm talking about the cam buckets that sit above the valves and the cam lobes run across
However apparently on the stupid R's they shimmed and not hydraulic
So my first thought is out then.... WTF...

Nothing from my odb interface.
mmmm Thanks for the advice. I'm thinking of at least trying the oil pressure gauge for a an starting point and leave the current spec oil until I can get some readings. That might lead to a clarification of the problem or at least which direction to go in.

Cheers
How PC savvy are you? A Vida dice combo hooked up will get oil pressure.
Dont keep that oil in there , Whiteblocks are keen to have certain oils in them , they get noisy with the wrong ones , try one that Philia recomended. Even Mobil ! wasnt real good for my 850R years ago , i tried Castrol edge and Shell Syn , went to Penrite and never looked back...
Hi,

Pretty good on PC i have VIDA dice so should be able to get the info if you canpoint me in the right direction..
And that is the point at which I am not sure. @jonbot should know though. Where do check in vida for oil pressure?
Pretty sure P2 only has a switch, no oil pressure sensor

It is possible for the vvt unit on the end of the cam to fail and get rattly till theres enough oil pressure
Argh, buggeration. Then the dual port and hooking up a gauge would be the best bet.
Jonbot - Moonbi hey, grew up in Tamworth so yes i do know where that is!!!

Is there anyway to test the VVT unit as i have thought that this could be the case??


I'll look into a dual port sensor rhis weekend, hopefully if time permts! Any suggestions for brand/type?
I have replaced the vvt cam gears before for oil leaks, the oil pressure would bleed off and we would get a similar noise as it was revved off idle and the gear will slop around until the oil pressure built back up. You could watch the cam gear move out away from the head but there was an obvious oil leak associated with this
Tim,

Was changing the VVt cam gears difficult or did you get someone to do them for you?
8 days later
Short answer is yes. There is no key way on the cams so installation requires the camshafts to be locked together at the rear with special tool. There is also a specific way to install the gears to the cams to ensure that they are at the end limit of the vvti travel. Not impossible but can cause catrastrophic damage if done incorrectly and with twin vvti its easy to be out a tooth or two the process is detailed on vida. Are you getting any fault codes or oil leaks?
No oil leaks and no codes from VIDA?? Looking into getting an oil pressure test gauge and hooking up to start with.and go from there.
Generally VIDA will throw a code for the valves at the top of the engine when something in the VVT system starts going wonky
Yep after all the research etc I have done over the last week or so I tend to agree. Will start with the oil pressure test and report back
Thanks Philia Bear great help

Cheers
3 months later
Hi all,

Its been a while but i have finally got some oil pressure readings.

50psi at cold idle
27psi at hot idle in and out of drive
50 psi at hot start after leaving vehicle for 1/2 or so and slowly decreases to 27psi when idling (this is when noise in cam area normally occurs at hot start)

Engine hot -
1500rpm 40-50psi
2000rpm 65psi


mmm not sure what to do here???

Might take sump off and replace the oil o rings etc?? This noise was particularly bad yesterday as it was very warm ambient temp.

Any suggestions


While I don't know what the pressures should be , are you using a Volvo oil filter as @AshDVS‌ suggests? Have you put in Penrite as @Philia_Bear‌ suggested , which is what I use. Proper oil is a big thing with these motors. It is worth dumping what you have after a good hot run and doing a Penrite fill.
After flushing my motor with Castrol for a short time I put in Penrite and the tapping has 98% gone , only occasionally on a start up cold.
L.
Hi,

Yep running Volvo filter. Will try the Penrite oil and see if that helps.
Oil pressure is way way low

Minimum 80psi at cold start and 50psi at hot idle
Tentacle wagon with a worn out 300000km b6304 with 5w40 full syn got 100psi at cold start and 70psi at hot idle

At 27psi the engine is going to die a quick death

Swap it to 10w50 hpr10 full syn and put a Volvo filter on it and retest

If that does not fix it....
I've never seen or heard of the gaskets or o rings on the pump going, only leaking a little bit out the front
It really sounds like someone ignored a bunch of oil changes and the bearings have worn enough that shits going south
Otherwise could be a failed oil squirter that's just pissing. I have seen it once on a newish motor that carked itself
Thanks Philia Bear, will try the 10w/50 and retest. No oil changes missed by me at least and the service book is all good.

Anyway I will persist for the time being. Joe at Lupica Motors did the test for me and also said I could try a heavier weight oil... Joe - great service thanks for recommendation
19 days later
Hi all,

Took some videos over the weekend and checked the play in the hubs and to my surprise there is a fair bit of play!!!









As you can see in the first video when hot after sitting for 1/2hr or so there is substantial play in the hub. The other two videos show the difference when the vehicle is cold and has sat overnight and the last link is the original video when I first heard the noise!!

Not sure what is considered normal, but i would think there should not be as much play. Any thoughts?

Cheers
Stewart


This is Åska while "hot".
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