B230 +16V into 140 - ancillary fitting issues

Thanks @timbo - certainly some options to think about there!

But meanwhile, it's back to the drawing board for the engine mounts. The Yoshifab off-the-shelf B230 into 'vintage' option isn't going to work with a standard 140 crossmember.

I jury-rigged a 140 front end under the engine while it was in the stand. Presuming the use of standard 140 / TC Cortina 250 engine mounts, the necessary alignment is miles off.

(For those unfamiliar with the old stuff, 140 and 6 cylinder Cortina engine mounts aren't like 240 mounts with offset bolts and dowels in the centre; the mounting bolts are located in the centre of the mount, like spinning tops).

The angle of the engine mount flanges isn't suitable for a 140, especially on the RH side.

So much for off-the-shelf solutions! It appears it will be necessary now to home brew something, because these ain't never gonna work the way they are. At least by home brewing, I maybe able to fit the standard ancillaries bracket!

Are Amazon / 1800 mounts a different size to 140s? I don't know if this is so, but I suspect they are. If so, maybe somebody may have a use for them, then. Otherwise, they're just a pair of very expensive ($195 USD + shipping) dust collectors AFAIC. Nicely made and painted, but not suitable for intended purpose.

@carnut222 here's a better pic of the Yoshifab conversion LH engine mount; you can see the third bolt in this shot.

@carnut222 - The engine to crossmember gap is about 100mm or so from higher where it would normally be. I set up the bare crossmenber on a pair of axle stands just to see if the engine mounts were going to work out - better I find this out now, then have an engine built and ready to install, and unable to fit.

The brackets are advertised as 'vintage' - they didn't specify 140 / Amazon / 1800. I have my 1800 project in the shed with an engine in it, but I am not keen to pull it out and play 'see if it fits' with the B230 block on the engine crane right now (I still have a 144 that needs engine extraction / rebuilding / re-insertion). But that 1800 is slated to get a new RHD front end with rack and pinion steering (and other things to upset the purists but make me happy) so these brackets won't see use in it.

@timbo at the time that TB article was written (2012), Yoshifab were selling engine mount adapter plates - to install a B230, you used the B20 engine mount brackets and attached them to the Yoshifab adapter plates, which then attached to the B230.

These new single-piece mounting brackets were supposed to do away with the need for 240 offset mounts.

@dmc writes:

If you are after a relocation effort for the brakes booster and master see my add for parts. I imported a couple of LHD brake booster mounts to do what you are doing to my 144 a couple of years ago.

Thank you - I will keep what you've written in mind and get back to you about them. ? It's not really possible to put a b230 16V in a late RHD 140 engine bay, with that great heavy chunk of rod running from one side of the engine bay to the other, so I have to do something. I was thinking of going to a 7 inch diameter, double diaphragm booster mounted on the RH side, and running lines from the relocated master cylinder to the existing distribution block.

@carnut222 writes:

Mmm rack and pinion...I look forward to following that conversion. The steering in the 1800, well, it leaves a bit to be desired!

My 1800E is also LHD, and that's part of the reason I want to convert it.... but I'm planning to cheat a bit, and just replace the whole front crossmember, etc with something like the HR Holden replacement front end from Castlemaine Rod Shop, after taking some measurements. It looks to me like a Mustang 2 setup but for RHD. This is a very long-term project though.

https://www.rodshop.com.au/holden/hd-hr/ifsfe-hrw-holden-front-ends.html

@Roinik - Yep, that figures. Just looked in the 1800's engine bay (which AFAIK uses an Amazon front crossmember) and they definitely have a longer reach on the RH side than 140 mounts do. So the 140 / 1800 / Amazon powerplants will interchange, but not their mounting points, apparently.

The tradition appeared to carry on, too - B21 brackets use the same block mounting points as B230, but 7/9 engine brackets and mounts are totally different to 240. Lard knows why Mother Volvo did this, it's a completely different part that had to made and stocked to fit the same hardware in a different platform, and thus created a needless manufacturing expense.

I'll drop Josh an email about this issue with the 'vintage' engine mounts.

@dmc writes WRT the previous version of the engine swap mounts:

I was under the impression they used the 140/1800 engine mounts and made the B230 'look like' a B18/B20 so the original B18/B20 mounts just bolted up.

Ayup, and then one used offset 240 mounts to seat the engine. If memory serves, Josh revised the design not long after the TB thread Tim pointed to earlier.

About those brake booster mounts - yes please. I'll pick them up from you next time I'm on the mainland

carnut222

Hmm, sounds like it’s not a bolt-in solution...I think if I end up putting my B230 in the ES I’ll just fab some up myself.

The Yoshi brackets appear to work just fine in 1800s. Seems this is what they were made for.

Just found this Instagram link by accident on a Google search an hour ago.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkQyDXClhvd/?hl=en

Josh replied to my email very quickly so 10/10 for Yoshifab. This is the first he's heard of this problem. He's aware of the issue now with 140s and he's keen to sort it. I'll send him some measurements when the smoke clears a bit.

UPDATE -

Josh (Yoshifab) has just sent me a set of redesigned engine mount adapters to fit an OHC redblock into a 140. These new mounts are quite different than the 120 / P1800 type brackets as previously suppled.

I've just done a test fit in the garage, with the 140 crossmember and B230 in the engine stand as shown above, and all is good now. Pictures to follow.

Pictures!

Test fitting - to a 140 crossmember with the revised Yoshifab mounts - thanks Josh.

Note the changes in the left-side mount - the 140 version has the rubber attached.

The big changes however were in the right-hand side mount - note how the 140 mount flange (with rubber) is somewhat shorter than the 120-1800 version (without rubber).