140 B230 +16V into 140 - ancillary fitting issues

bgpzfm142bgpzfm142 (@bgpzfm142) Launceston TAS
edited March 25 in General

So I've begun a preliminary test fit of the various components for my engine build, before they head off for machining and assembly.

Thanks to @VolvoHordz 's advice, I was able to get the correct fasteners to fit the Yoshifab 16V tensioner assembly. (If you're doing one of these, it's held on by a pair of cap screws - along with the visible one seen at 1 o'clock to the idler, there's also a countersunk cap screw that holds it to the block, which is located under the tensioner pulley, but not visible in pics).

I've also gotten some Yoshifab pushrod-to-OHC engine mount adapters.

But Houston, we've had a problem.

The LH engine mount fouls one of the mounting points on the block for the standard type of B230 ancillary components mounting bracket.

So I may need to replace the Sanden A/C compressor with something smaller and lighter.

Which brings me to my question for the brains and engineering trust:

What type of compressor offers the best weight / size advantage - scroll type, or swish plate type?

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Comments

  • Wind the windows down, air comes through in all sorts of conditions


    Canoe
  • lol

    Um, no.

    Spac
  • come on now

    I thought tassy was cold all year long?

  • SpacSpac (@Spac) Canberra-ish.

    I have been lead to believe that the wobble plate uses less engine power for a given output, but the scroll type are more space efficient.

    The way I see it, there’s not many times you’d choose a wobble plate one.

    bgpzfm142
  • Looking at that engine mount bracket, I’m surprised they didn’t use the 3rd bolt...seems like its a bit cantilevered off just the 2 bolts?? Or am I missing something?

  • It's gonna be pretty tight to get any A/C compressor in the stock b230 location on a 140

    bgpzfm142
  • The Yoshifab inlet manifold will be tight, especially with the brake booster. The bonus is the absence of the power steering pump and the ability to place the alternator on the right.

  • That's a myth - it does get hot here.

    More to the point, it gets hot on the mainland, and the insanity which is Melbourne traffic is stressful enough without pressure cooking from the heat too. And going through Melbourne is unavoidable when driving from TAS to anywhere on the mainland.

    So I'll need the most space efficient 130cc compressor to survive it.

    egads
  • SpacSpac (@Spac) Canberra-ish.

    Gah, you’re right!

    And seems easy to slightly redesign the bracket so that the third bolt hole can be used.

    carnut222
  • Who made the mounts?

  • jamesincJames (@jamesinc) Oz Volvo Ice Fortress

    @bgpzfm142 I would actually start by fitting a modern condenser, that will give you a leg up in terms of getting away with a smaller compressor.

    bgpzfm142
  • @Roinik - Yoshifab engine mounts. KL Racing inlet manifold.

    Your observation noted WRT clearance issues with it and the brake booster, but I want to move the booster away from the LH side of the car anyway. Power steering is also to be added (via a 164 steering box) and it appears there's enough room to get a power steering pump on the RH side of the engine.

    @carnut222 - they did use the 3rd engine mount bolt, however the pic doesn't show it very clearly - um, well, the pic doesn't show it at all, actually.

    There's a hole through which it's possible to access the third M8 thread insert with a bolt. I'll get a pic of that shortly. I reckon @timbo has nailed the issue WRT to the usual B230 ancillaries bracket setup - there isn't the clearance in a 140 to mount the usual type compressor in the same locale. Even if the LH engine mount is chopped a wee bit to allow enough clearance to bolt on the standard ancillaries mounting bracket, a standard Sanden A/C compressor is going to try and occupy the same space as the 142's LH chassis rail. I will take another pic of the whole shebang, this time also with the spare 140 crossmember which @Spac kindly donated to me a while ago.

    Then I will see what I can find in scroll-type units and see if it can be shoe-horned in there somewhere; since I won't be using a mechanical distributor, the compressor can eat into that space if necessary.

  • Might be too soon but total cost would probably still be cheaper than climate control panel was for the s80!

    http://www.autofrost.com.au/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=2069

  • Thanks @timbo - certainly some options to think about there!

    But meanwhile, it's back to the drawing board for the engine mounts. The Yoshifab off-the-shelf B230 into 'vintage' option isn't going to work with a standard 140 crossmember.

    I jury-rigged a 140 front end under the engine while it was in the stand. Presuming the use of standard 140 / TC Cortina 250 engine mounts, the necessary alignment is miles off.

    (For those unfamiliar with the old stuff, 140 and 6 cylinder Cortina engine mounts aren't like 240 mounts with offset bolts and dowels in the centre; the mounting bolts are located in the centre of the mount, like spinning tops).

    The angle of the engine mount flanges isn't suitable for a 140, especially on the RH side.

    So much for off-the-shelf solutions! It appears it will be necessary now to home brew something, because these ain't never gonna work the way they are. At least by home brewing, I maybe able to fit the standard ancillaries bracket!

    Are Amazon / 1800 mounts a different size to 140s? I don't know if this is so, but I suspect they are. If so, maybe somebody may have a use for them, then. Otherwise, they're just a pair of very expensive ($195 USD + shipping) dust collectors AFAIC. Nicely made and painted, but not suitable for intended purpose.

    @carnut222 here's a better pic of the Yoshifab conversion LH engine mount; you can see the third bolt in this shot.


  • Thx for clarification on the engine mount bolt. In those pics is the engine sitting down where it’s meant to be, or is it sitting up about 100 mm higher than final position? Either way they do look miles off. Are the brackets advertised as B230 into 122/P1800? Hmm, I could be tempted for my ES! :) Future, future, future, future project. ;)


  • Some fitment issues also mentioned here seems they're designed to use the 240 offset mounts but fitment is still less than ideal

    carnut222
  • If you are after a relocation effort for the brakes booster and master see my add for parts. I imported a couple of LHD brake booster mounts to do what you are doing to my 144 a couple of years ago.

    All measurements I did were that it would bolt on with the firewall end of the above mount changed to be the flat part of the throttle shaft mounting. My theory was to keep it all reasonably original, so much that an untrained eye would not notice it was moved and not ask many questions. A lot less moving parts too.

    bgpzfm142
  • Hmm, sounds like it’s not a bolt-in solution...I think if I end up putting my B230 in the ES I’ll just fab some up myself.

  • @carnut222 - The engine to crossmember gap is about 100mm or so from higher where it would normally be. I set up the bare crossmenber on a pair of axle stands just to see if the engine mounts were going to work out - better I find this out now, then have an engine built and ready to install, and unable to fit.

    The brackets are advertised as 'vintage' - they didn't specify 140 / Amazon / 1800. I have my 1800 project in the shed with an engine in it, but I am not keen to pull it out and play 'see if it fits' with the B230 block on the engine crane right now (I still have a 144 that needs engine extraction / rebuilding / re-insertion). But that 1800 is slated to get a new RHD front end with rack and pinion steering (and other things to upset the purists but make me happy) so these brackets won't see use in it.

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