Ben
I haven't done *any* research but if I could get a quiet and more powerful supercharger for my 240, I'd probably keep it rather than swapping in a turbo engine. With the torque our engines produce, they're pretty damn zippy.
The whole T vs SC is like Mac vs PC; both have their positives and negatives. You either want one or the other, or use both.
Philia_Bear
Having been down this path and working with a number of other people as well including RSI...
a RHD car is easier to work with then LHD... the brake booster is way out of the way
if one is willing to get rid of the squid, and convert the PS from belt to electric there was easily room to fit in a long snout M90 eaton onto a log style intake manifold
There was a problem with this though
the stock good cams (high lift 10.9mm vs 9.9mm in the USA 95+ emissions cams) are best to run wtih a rev limit of 7200rpm
the M90 is onyl rated to 12,000rpm (the cheap one found on the 3800's anyways) and thus with a 7200 engine RPM limit it was going to be a max of a 1.67:1 pully setup and keep any longevity in the blower
With the 1.67 ratio in mind the blower (based on EATON flow maps and b6304 flow charts) was only going to be able to push in 6-7PSI\
from multiple turbo setups on the B6304 floating around this was going to mean that the motor was going to jump to around the 250-260hp range with excellent torque and throttle responce
at an estimated cost greater then swapping in a LS1
Thus... just put an LS1 into it and be done :-)
Ben
Great info, thanks.
supermattyp
Mike is right with his calculations but keep in mind he's trying repurpose a less than desirable blower for the application. When using the correct blower for the job the power goes up substantially.
With a sc.... The head unit is everything..... Everything.
supermattyp
If I decide to drop the coin on another petrol car with boost....this....is what I'm wanting to do to it. May even consider doing it to the Smart car.... going from 70bhp to 150whp would make it a little more fun.
http://www.rotrex.com/Home
Also note that they now have a fully ELECTRIC supercharger. I'm reading the white paper on it now to see how feasible it is for a jobber like me or only for manufacturers. electric SC means no packaging worries of any kind and with the dropping price of super-capaictors could be a HUGE market in the future....think Nitrous with a bottle that never needs filling. Charge the primer off solar panels maybe?? regen braking like Mazdas E-loop... this could be pretty awesome if developed on a larger scale.
OldnDecrepit
I was looking at the fully electric design too while investigating superchargers but I don't think that they're ready for the home market yet. But they are looking hopeful.
supermattyp
it appears that Rotrex is going after the "fuel cell" / Hybrid eco group with the electric supercharger. I guess this is so they can use a much smaller (400-600cc petrol engine) while generating the power of a 1.5L ICE.
I'm browsing their site and it looks like a one-off jobber unit capable of approx 220hp is right at $2100. Seems like a solid platform to start with for the Smart car....packaging is tight but I'm sure it could be made to fit with minimal modification. The other option I had was to try to swap in a B16 and automatic from a honda civic but I think it'll be too wide.
It would be great to have an electric version of their blower to play with. My A.D.D. would have that system figured out over the christmas holidays.
Philia_Bear
supermattyp;16393 wrote When using the correct blower for the job the power goes up substantially.
.
And so does the cost as the nice Rotrex unit is more then a LS1 or 1UZ halfcut sells for :-)
That said the Rotrex unint looks really nice and the variable gearing is nothing less then massivly impressive
If I was putting something into a smart car... I wonder if a 2zz might fit...
GT_Paul
My old supercharged 164 was cool fun...blower is now going on the 122 with twin blow SU's
Vee_Que
I think we need a thread on the 122.
GT_Paul
Yeah..but dave is to shy i think
egads (she/her)
Dave's 122 is amazing! So much attention to detail!
Forg
With this talk of electric superchargers ... how easy is it to update your alternator to generate the kilowatts of electricity you need?
Ex850R
As Matty was saying,big capacitors are getting cheap and running a generator when brakes are on, a simple regeneration setup could be done,geezus,even solar panel on the roof!
Forg
It sounds like something you'd need to be keen to do aftermarket, as the costs wouldn't be returned in any way unless The Man starts enforcing Euro 7 emissions requirements on old cars or something ... but the way hybrids are going (which have huge electrical systems anyway) & also with turbocharging being a solid way of getting efficiency, it makes sense for something like a Camry Hybrid.
supermattyp
nobody runs an electric supercharger off the stock alternator. The 2 most popular methods I've seen used are:
1. Additional deep cycle battery mounted in the trunk
or
2. Capacitor.
For my purposes it would be better just to run a slightly larger alternator and have it top off a spare deep cycle battery in the trunk. Capacitors are great if they refill fast enough for your driving habits. With a large battery you have plenty of grunt thats constantly being topped off while you're driving.
Forg
Can you really get a continual flow of kiloWatts of electricity out of a battery or capacitor that's not being topped-up with kiloWatts from somewhere else? It looks like a big boofy car battery with a claimed 800CCA probably has about 500Ah in it so & if I've calculated that's 5 minutes at 12V for a kiloWatt, so to provide a "few" kiloWatts you've drained one of those in a couple of minutes.
But that's not really my point ('cos you'd be using different battery technology I'd hope); issue is you've got to get that juice from somewhere. You'd have to plug it in to get the power in the first place, if a 500Ah battery is drained in minutes then putting power into it isn't feasible with a conventional-sized 100A alternator ... so you're thinking this is a plug-in solution?
Philia_Bear
If your just driving around town... i dont think you really need more then a few seconds of use at a time while you get up to speed etc...
Maybe 60 seconds on a longer hill
as such you just do some specific work with a smart controller that runs a mosfet to allow or block charging of the secondary battery during specific throttle posistion events
Thus you have 3 stages...
Normal driving = charging
medium acceleration = no charging and no blower
Higher acceleration = no charging and blower operating
For refrence a big 800cca battery like the M88 in my BMW is generally only about 130-150AH
It also weighs a LOT....
Thus this is where LI-PRO shines as good LI-pro cells can deal with hundreds of thousands of mild discharge events (running between 50-80% of charge) and not suffer much any degradation
Vee_Que
Also costing several thousand to have decent life. .
