No Start

familyman · 2017-08-30T09:09:22+00:00

YM 1990 will be LH 2.4. Have you checked for codes?

familyman

"New" ECU arrived today. Plugged it in.

NO START.

* Thinks to self: "So it's not the ECU - Grrr... I was so sure."
* Thinks to self: "What do I do now!?"
* Thinks to self: "Hm... Fuel pumps didn't come on with the key either."
* Thinks to self: "Oh, a bit hard for the fuel relay to operate - when it's sitting inside the house on my desk."

* Plug fuel relay in.
* FIXED!

A big THANK YOU to all who took the time to think along with me, suggested and confirmed tests: much appreciated! :-D

Slowbrick

This is the best day ever!

carnut222

Hooray! =)

gavinh

Well done getting the problem solved, I kept reading your thread hoping to see a result, I have to admit as much as I like the more modern running gear etc, k-jet is hard to beat.

familyman

Spoke too soon. I did the above, started it, and it was running very rough, but enough to back out of the garage. I figured the ECU was just relearning. I needed an air filter from Supercheap anyway. So I turned the key off, went inside for wallet, got back in the car - all the same symptoms again. And I can't get it to start. Sounds just like before.

When I first changed the ECU, the fuel relay would lock on (fuel pumps on) when I turned ignition on. I have the relay cover off and can see both relays latching on. After a couple of seconds one relay unlatches, the other stays latched even with the key out. Cranking again latches the open relay closed again. But the only way to unlatch the closed relay is to unplug the relay.

So far I've checked for spark at the plugs again - it's present. Unplugged the AMM - still no start. I had also bought an EZK from the same working car as the ECU. So I removed battery terminal, plugged the EZK in as well - no start.

I'm lost this time. And I have the sinking feeling whatever it is has killed the new ECU.

familyman

Ah, ok - the second relay also releases after 2-3 minutes.

familyman

Because I'd disconnected the battery for testing it blanks the error codes. Just I cranked the engine to see if I got any error codes with the new ECU. (Will any codes be produced without the engine actually starting?)

Anyway, this time the LED doesn't light hard on all the time with the probe in socket 2 (like it did with the pink ECU installed). So maybe the new ECU is ok. Socket 2 & 6 show no error codes.

What can kill the fuel injectors apart from ECU? If the crank position sensor is dead, can you still get spark at the plugs?

jamesinc

Disconnect the ECT sensor and try again. You won't get codes without the engine starting.

Vee_Que

What injectors do you have and did you replace them recently? Sounds like when turbo injectors kill non resistored turbo stuff.

Major Ledfoot

familyman;118908 wroteWhen I first changed the ECU, the fuel relay would lock on (fuel pumps on) when I turned the ignition on. Now, after plugging the relay in, turning the key does bring the pumps on - and I can see both relays latching on. After a couple of seconds one relay unlatches, the other stays latched - even with the key off/out!? Cranking latches the open relay closed too. But the only way to unlatch the closed one, is to unplug the relay.

It appears one of the relays may be intermittent or permanently cactus (or at least a diode in the faulty unit).

Do you have a spare fuel relay?

familyman

@Vee_Que: Original injectors. Car has 50,000km. When I first go out to the car each time and try to start it, it often catches for a just moment like it would start - but it's like the injectors fire once, then lose their signal. Then I can smell fuel (from back of car/muffler I guess). That fuel smell doesn't happen again unless that same 'nearly-catch' situation happens again - so I've been guessing none of the injectors are opening any other time.

When all this first happened it was running perfect. I drove home, turned car off, got out and lifted the roller door, restart, drove into garage... and engine stopped a split second earlier than normal as I turned off the key. (But maybe I imagined that.) Next day it's dead. Since it was running perfect before apart from the odd stall late on cold nights, it sounded just like what what others experience with those pink ECUs. (And the fuel pumps are now working with the ignition with the 951 ECU fitted.)

@bgpzfm142: The fuel relay is working ok now. I think it already was ok, but the old ECU probably wasn't activating it. But turning the ignition on with the new ECU starts the pumps for a second or two. (I resoldered the relay the other night anyway, and locking it on with your finger operates it too.) When I hit ignition, I can see both relays latch. A second or two later one relay releases and pumps go off. The second relay unlatches a couple of minutes later - when some residual voltage dies off I assume. (I've read somewhere this is all normal - it's just that we don't normally see the second relay still latched, because its cover is on.) Additionally tonight I ran through the relay tests in the Volvo Problem Solver PDF. I couldn't do all of them because I needed four hands. But I realised because of what I just typed above (key on, pumps comes on), I realised the relay is fine.

In other news I think the battery has finally died. I was charging it ~30 minutes each time before cranking the car - and was getting probably 20 good strong cranks out of it. But it won't take any charge now. So I'll have to work out how to get a new battery here. (I've injured myself - bad gout in my right ankle so can hardly walk - I'm about to look at a bus timetable.)

familyman

jamesinc;118932 wroteDisconnect the ECT sensor and try again.

Damn gout... I layed on the engine but can't find a way to disconnect it. Only way I can think that might work is a huge pair of long reach pliers with a 90 degree bend in the tip. (Which of course, I don't own.) Has anyone got that plug off/on a late model before (no room)? How?

familyman

Oh - and when I first put the 951 ECU in and it ran really rough, I think the lambda sond light on the dash was lit.

Slowbrick

Ok so we are getting somewhere! So if you get pumps priming with key on then your ECU is alive and well. So when you try to start it will now stumble and sort of start and then die? Then you notice one of the latches have opened?
In my experience the latch opens when the ECU has no engine speed signal and this is a safety feature to prevent fuel entering the engine compartment in the event of a crash and the engine stalls.
The CPS is typically responsible for giving the ECU this signal.
However to make this more of a mystery your car ran on starter fluid which means the CPS must be working in some capacity. I'm not aware of any failure mode in those apart from total failure.

I think at this point with a working ECU you might be able to get a running car *temporarily* by attempting the bridging of 4 and 6 again.

Let us know how that goes. I would be hesitant to jam both latches shut in case you have some anomaly going on that could kill your ECU.

Vee_Que

Maybe you should take a taxi to get a battery? Also do not crank an engine for more then a minute and then let it rest for 5 minutes at least.

Also, why not get the car towed to a workshop?

familyman

Slowbrick;118962 wroteI think at this point with a working ECU you might be able to get a running car *temporarily* by attempting the bridging of 4 and 6 again.

Sadly no, I tried that last night.

Well, it happened - woke up today and I can't walk. Rego due in 4 days.

jamesinc

@familyman where do you live?

familyman

Strange, didn't see Vee-Que's message before. A new battery is being delivered today (he claimed "soon" at 10am, and "Within the hour." At 2:55pm. It's nearly 4pm). Oops - he just phoned. "Is tomorrow morning ok?"

Also, why not get the car towed to a workshop?

I'm nearly at that point.

familyman

To backtrack a little:

Slowbrick;118962 wroteSo when you try to start it will now stumble and sort of start and then die?

That was when I first installed the ECU. Now it's back to cranking with no start at all. The battery then became too weak last night to get a decent crank, and won't take a charge anymore. So now I wait for the new battery to arrive.

Then you notice one of the latches have opened?

Ignition on = both relays latch closed. A second or two later one releases and fuel pumps turn off (so that's the normal priming action, yes?). If I go from ignition direct into cranking, it's same thing really. Both are latched but one lets go and pumps go off, as cranking starts. (The fuel pumps don't keep running during cranking. They prime once and that's it. The second relay stays latched for a minute or two before also opening.)

So no signal to keep relay closed/fuel pumps on. And bridging fuse 4 & 6 doesn't allow starting.

In my experience the latch opens when the ECU has no engine speed signal...
The CPS is typically responsible for giving the ECU this signal.

Yep, but I have spark at the plugs. I've pulled two, maybe three leads off a few times, stuck long nose pliers into the end of the lead, and rested the pliers on the strut tower - cranking produces good spark jumping to the strut tower bolts. I've also connected a bulb from the ignition coil "1" to ground - and across 1 and 15 too - it flashes as the engine is cranked.

Yeah - I know - it's just plain weird.

However to make this more of a mystery your car ran on starter fluid which means the CPS must be working in some capacity. I'm not aware of any failure mode in those apart from total failure.

I can no longer get it to start on ether. This is the other reason for the new battery - to see if it will start off ether with some heavy current. (I was going to buy the battery after the car was running, to get the one I want, instead of buying the first one I could get.)

Let us know how that goes. I would be hesitant to jam both latches shut in case you have some anomaly going on that could kill your ECU.

Too late. ;-) Have accidentally held it closed a couple of times.

After waiting all day for the battery guy, I was going to ride the bike ~5km and back to buy some long reach long nose pliers, to try and disconnect the ECT as James suggested. But I would have gotten there on closing time. So I may as well rest my ankle until tomorrow.

I suspected the CPS from the start... Because at the firewall it's outer black insulation has a nick, so you can see the insulation of the wires inside it. But again - I have spark.

MAYBE with a new battery and some ether it will start. MAYBE the ECU is just so out of whack it can't run. (Yeah, right - LOL.)

familyman

jamesinc;118981 wrotewhere do you live?

PM'd.

« Previous Page Next Page »