Greg & Wayne's 1993 240 Electric - the eVolvo

carnut222 · 2017-07-25T11:11:33+00:00

Most people who do EV conversions choose some tiny sh*t-box like a Daihatsu Charade or Mitsubishi Mirage (both appropriately-named LOL!) but we wanted it to...

carnut222

PJQ;c-145116 wroteHi Greg and Wayne,
Congrats on a really valuable thread for anyone interested in EV conversions.

I notice you’ve got a fan blower for the motor and oil cooler for the controller, have you had any dramas with battery heat or cold in our climate?

We don’t have the prolonged freeze of the northern hemisphere winter, but the last couple of months in Melbs have been damn frosty. Then we’ve got the other extreme to think about.

Battery temperature problems come up in articles and discussions. This article at the excellent Electric Revs site describes the root cause and research on a solution.
https://electricrevs.com/2018/09/06/researchers-create-self-heating-battery-cells-for-speedier-winter-charging/

Confession - snuck on here to ask about this, I don't have a Volvo ;) Having a project in mind I'm on the learning curve for EV conversion, in the info-gathering stage. My XP Futura Coupe is undergoing ground-up resto. While its a rolling shell is the perfect time to build in battery compartments and fittings for EV conversion.

Cheers,
Pete Q

Thanks Pete. Good luck with your conversion. With respect to cooling, we added the blower fan and filter to the motor to prevent dirt being sucked in. It probably was not necessary as the motor never got very hot before it. The Zilla controller requires cooling (in this case it is standard automotive coolant pumped through a small radiator using a 12 v gaming PC pump. Without the cooling on the controller, it will get hot and automatically cut back on power to prevent damage.

The batteries in our conversion are not heated or cooled. We only ever charge using a relatively slow 2.5-3 kW charger so they don’t get too hot, but you would not want to leave it out in the 30-40C heat all day, especially while charging. When I used the car for commuting I was fortunate to have a parking garage so it didn’t have to sit out in the sun. In cold weather, the performance can be a bit sluggish (with more voltage sag than when warm). It doesn’t seem to affect range at all. We now live near Daylesford so yes, we’ve had plenty of frost this winter, but again, we leave the car parked in the shed all the time when at home.

Hope that helps and happy to answer any further questions you might have.

Greg

carnut1100

Wrecked Teslas here go for up to $50-60k however I know someone who just bought one at auction for $16k.
He also bought a wrecked imiev for $1500 which is currently getting stripped to be used to convert a Mk 1 Cortina.

carnut222

carnut1100;c-145148 wroteWrecked Teslas here go for up to $50-60k however I know someone who just bought one at auction for $16k.
He also bought a wrecked imiev for $1500 which is currently getting stripped to be used to convert a Mk 1 Cortina.

Wow $16K sounds like a deal for a wrecked Tesla if the battery pack is intact. I’ll have to keep an eye out. Would love to upgrade our pack some day. Last one I saw at auction was a repairable write-off. I think a stat write-off would be a better deal for parts harvesting as long as it’s not too far gone.

carnut222

I wonder what this one will go for?

carnut222

Nice sunset tonight - reflected in wheel makes it look hot LOL!

carnut222

Was giving the car a bit of a clean and discovered the front passenger carpet was wet...traced it to the windscreen leaking at the lower front corner. Bugger! Have had 2 windscreens put in this car since we’ve owned it...last one was probably 6 years ago. Both genuine Volvo windscreens, and being a 93 they’re the one with the back flush aluminium extrusion bonded to the glass and a flush rubber seal that has a small bulb that presses into a groove in the extrusion. I was able to carefully remove the rubber seal and pumped the top and sides full of latex caulking. Didn’t want to use silicone or urethane as the muppets that installed the previous screens never properly removed the original mastic from the body. On that note, I was always assuming that the factory changed to urethane in the last few years of production, but looking at my 93 parts car sedan, it still has the original windscreen and it’s held in with butyl mastic. So there you have it! Hopefully my caulking job will prevent the bulk of any water getting in behind the rubber lip and finding its way into the car. I did confirm that both of the small lower drain holes are not blocked, so fingers crossed.

Philia_Bear

Speaking of battery packs...
Berry's have a 15kw pack from a xc90 t8 they paid very little money for

carnut222

Philia_Bear;c-158686 wroteSpeaking of battery packs...
Berry's have a 15kw pack from a xc90 t8 they paid very little money for

Yeah I’ve been eyeing that since they got it some years ago. Not sure whether it would be any good if it hasn’t been periodically charged, plus may be hard to integrate as it’s probably all can-bus etc...I think I told Mark $500 a while back but no dice or not sure they were ready to sell, plus I was a bit unsure whether we could use it.

carnut222

Philia_Bear;c-158686 wroteSpeaking of battery packs...
Berry's have a 15kw pack from a xc90 t8 they paid very little money for

P.S. I assume you’re talking about the red one they’ve had for a long time unless they got a new one I don’t know about.

Philia_Bear

carnut222;c-158688 wrote
Philia_Bear;c-158686 wroteSpeaking of battery packs...
Berry's have a 15kw pack from a xc90 t8 they paid very little money for

P.S. I assume you’re talking about the red one they’ve had for a long time unless they got a new one I don’t know about.

same one they have had for a little while
The pack was near fully charged when pulled so it should still be fine
If I was to use it I would just be bypassing any existing BMS system and putting in a new one as one would likely need to break the thing apart anyways to make it fit into a new space etc...

carnut1100

Yes, I'd be stripping the pack down and reconfiguring the cells and use a different BMS.

Philia_Bear

Digging this back up

Tesla model s 85 battery packs now available here in aus for $2k shipped to Sydney per 5kw pack

What voltage are you running and what's the max output of the current motor you have? (Also max rpm output)

I have been thinking about doing the kraken as electric for some time now

carnut222

At that price it would be nice to buy a salvage Tesla...I saw a hail damaged one at Pickles auction IIRC...then use the whole pack with BMS and Tesla motor!

We’re running a 144VDC (nominal) pack...the max current our controller will do is 1000 amps so theoretical maximum would be 144 kW...minus any losses. We don’t have it set to 1000 amps though as we don’t want to kill the batteries. The motor is a large DC motor and is only rated up to about 6000 RPM (we have it rev limited to about 5500 RPM IIRC). Newer conversions are now using AC motors and higher RPM limit...

Keep in mind if you buy those Tesla modules, they probably have no battery management system so that will add quite a bit to the cost.

Hope that helps!

Philia_Bear

carnut222
At that price it would be nice to buy a salvage Tesla...I saw a hail damaged one at Pickles auction IIRC...then use the whole pack with BMS and Tesla motor!
We’re running a 144VDC (nominal) pack...the max current our controller will do is 1000 amps so theoretical maximum would be 144 kW...minus any losses. We don’t have it set to 1000 amps though as we don’t want to kill the batteries. The motor is a large DC motor and is only rated up to about 6000 RPM (we have it rev limited to about 5500 RPM IIRC). Newer conversions are now using AC motors and higher RPM limit...
Keep in mind if you buy those Tesla modules, they probably have no battery management system so that will add quite a bit to the cost.
Hope that helps!

Doing some work on this

BMS is simple, The tesla BMS has 1.2amp active balancers for each of the 6 packs of 72 cells in each module

The module BMS talk to each other via CAN bus on the tesla and then there are cross cell pack balancers but thats not something that I need to deal with (can bus wise anyways)

Assuming something like a 250V rated motor and controller, the cells are regularly run by Tesla at up to 5C so with the packs being 232AH I don't need to cross 4AH and under normal driving I can pull 1C all day long with zero issues

Pack wise... 8 packs in series for a nominal 182.4v and max of 201.6V gives 42KW continuous and a 5 sec max of 211KW...... or 10 sec max of 137kw following best practices.... considering the excellent cooling that Teslas has built into the packs, I have been told that 10c for 10 seconds is very doable (possibly way more than a normal 11" DC motor would handle)

8 packs * 6 = needing a 48 channel BMS/active balancer, something that is easily available out of taiwan already, This would also connect to a suitable high amperage relay (possibly mechanical) to disconnect the pack in the event of dangerous cell levels

I would go with something like a raspberry PI etc that has enough IO to monitor status of the Cell temps and voltage differentials and then adjust maximum levels of input into the DC controller from the throttle as well as keeping track of time spent over 1C discharge rate to ensure reasonable life

Still.... adding up the costs.... $16k in batteries, $100 in BMS, $500 in relays, $2500 in a motor controller, $4k in a motor, $1k in wiring

Charging wise..... My Taiwanese contact said that a MPPT based custom charger with a 600V max DC input and 60amp programmable output would be around the $1k mark.... so solar charging is easy.... AC charging becomes not too terrible if I can take grid power at 220-240V ac and boost it to 500v ish I can then get a AC->DC converter going with a near 1.0Power Factor but the components on it are in the order of another $1-3K

Mind you..... 12KW per hour charging is pretty reasonable

Weight wise.... swapping the B230E and fuel tank out and putting in the tesla packs and everything else I'm actually only up around 100KG vs a stock 244

Would want to run a M45 or 47 with a 3.31 rear end and then size the tyres as required

Though a programmable AW30-40LE would be more interesting from a drag performance perspective

Still... based on the cost.... yeah.... I need to win the lotto....

carnut222

Philia_Bear
https://ozvolvo.org/discussion/comment/172131#Comment_172131
Doing some work on this
BMS is simple, The tesla BMS has 1.2amp active balancers for each of the 6 packs of 72 cells in each module
The module BMS talk to each other via CAN bus on the tesla and then there are cross cell pack balancers but thats not something that I need to deal with (can bus wise anyways)
Assuming something like a 250V rated motor and controller, the cells are regularly run by Tesla at up to 5C so with the packs being 232AH I don't need to cross 4AH and under normal driving I can pull 1C all day long with zero issues
Pack wise... 8 packs in series for a nominal 182.4v and max of 201.6V gives 42KW continuous and a 5 sec max of 211KW...... or 10 sec max of 137kw following best practices.... considering the excellent cooling that Teslas has built into the packs, I have been told that 10c for 10 seconds is very doable (possibly way more than a normal 11" DC motor would handle)
8 packs * 6 = needing a 48 channel BMS/active balancer, something that is easily available out of taiwan already, This would also connect to a suitable high amperage relay (possibly mechanical) to disconnect the pack in the event of dangerous cell levels
I would go with something like a raspberry PI etc that has enough IO to monitor status of the Cell temps and voltage differentials and then adjust maximum levels of input into the DC controller from the throttle as well as keeping track of time spent over 1C discharge rate to ensure reasonable life
Still.... adding up the costs.... $16k in batteries, $100 in BMS, $500 in relays, $2500 in a motor controller, $4k in a motor, $1k in wiring
Charging wise..... My Taiwanese contact said that a MPPT based custom charger with a 600V max DC input and 60amp programmable output would be around the $1k mark.... so solar charging is easy.... AC charging becomes not too terrible if I can take grid power at 220-240V ac and boost it to 500v ish I can then get a AC->DC converter going with a near 1.0Power Factor but the components on it are in the order of another $1-3K
Mind you..... 12KW per hour charging is pretty reasonable
Weight wise.... swapping the B230E and fuel tank out and putting in the tesla packs and everything else I'm actually only up around 100KG vs a stock 244
Would want to run a M45 or 47 with a 3.31 rear end and then size the tyres as required
Though a programmable AW30-40LE would be more interesting from a drag performance perspective
Still... based on the cost.... yeah.... I need to win the lotto....

I’m impressed. Sounds like you’ve got the knowledge to do it. I’m a mechanical engineer so some of the electrical and computer stuff is beyond me but luckily my partner is an electronics/computer guru so he did that part. We can only hope prices come down so conversions become more economical. The more EVs on the road, the more that will start to hit the salvage auctions. We’d like to upgrade our car at some stage...Tesla batteries would be a good start as the main issue is range for us. I think the Teslas that have gone thru salvage auction here are still in the $30-50K mark but it would be good to know what they’re selling for now. If I could get a Model S with a large pack for $20K salvage I’d be tempted...

Philia_Bear

I've had a few different wrecking yards that I have called offer up packs from 85's, If I take the entire battery pack with 16 units they have been offering it for around $25k inc gst, otherwise $2k inc GST per pack if just 1, some have been willing to go down to $1800 inc gst if I'm buying 5 or more at a time

The tesla packs are 72 cells in parallel in a series of 6 so a nominal voltage of 22.8V

With the controller and motor your currently running, going to 7 packs would get you around the right voltage (maybe have to do something with the charger and BMS) and would slightly more than double your capacity

Also the tesla cells are 232AH per pack so you would be running much lower max C than you do right now so the long term degradation would be less and also you might find you get more than double the distance as the tesla cells are more efficient at high(er) discharge rates than lipo4

The tesla cells also have the integrated cooling and heating tubing with quick disconnects so you can easily regulate the cell temperature to stay as close to 25C as possible at all times

Hazarding a guess that your running 108AH Caleb cells? assuming you are still at 100AH or more per cell doing a .3C test then you could easily resell the 45 you have for around $150-175ish each

Other option if you want a cheap range extension....https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Spark-Lithium-206Ah-Cell-Li-ion-Phosphate-LiFePo4-LFP206-Battery/362769910860?hash=item5476c58c4c:g:HwYAAOSwR1FdkYYk

Them are the cells I have been eye-ing for my campervan/offgrid build stuff

carnut222

Thanks for the info...we’ve got 130 AH CALB batteries in ours. We’ve been thinking that when/if we can get a good deal on a Tesla pack, we could re-purpose that as a home battery pack. Still thinking/dreaming the best way to go would be to buy a hail-damaged or crashed Tesla model S...I think there was one that just went thru Pickles in Canberra - would be interesting to see what it sold for...but I think it was just a 75.

ramrod

Hey Greg, who’s Wayne?

carnut222

ramrod
Hey Greg, who’s Wayne?

He’s my partner...as in husband but we’re not married for tax reasons (blame the USA!)

carnut222

OK, so I found out where the hail-damaged Tesla ended up:

https://m.facebook.com/HoldenEV/?__tn__=K-R&eid=ARDfXseqsLQanL6rgzr5It2H3WyCgypBbWJ3LcXVCBIej2ZVJT9MaS5vSzuNZzZFKEFryk92FGdcnjJL&fref=mentions&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARBzuPH0ywwk70PDs9Hw2FxORpeoyM_IlYqwpK6yNJjqlwjdjufJcYVvRNiotPO5VFAxBo_PoGXUyyrTy0KZBcSaXWquHNXgn8QNoyRv1GXz7AaU_negMtPo_4pVb_1a7wq2D0MEUPE75nTo63NqjxW7O9ELwMrYlbAv0pwr1aqnDU62v9-39aoEqSNvJrcNoCa8i8fDxbtJLFheiA8HhasN5t4T-_56jVXB2c2VNYP29Q

Looks like he got it for $34,000 including fees. Should be an interesting build to follow!

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