Vee_Que
Having just been in a 850r with a 20t and larger rear housing . The compressor surge does not appear to be an issue.
Julian
Hey @Vee_Que , interesting to hear. I guess I don't really understand how the larger housing prevents that surge- I would have thought having a more freely flowing housing would make boost spiking even worse? I have also only really heard people talk about it happening with the 19T for some reason.
I am also interested to know why companies like ipd list the 18T as the standard turbo for their "stage 3" upgrades, rather than the 19T?
I'm on the cusp of getting one or the other, but am wondering if predominantly driving around Newcastle the 18T would be better suited. There's additional pressure for me to get this job done now since the car is sitting in pieces taking up half the room in my dad's garage where his 850 should be haha
Vee_Que
Just go for the slightly bigger one. The surge is not happening as additional flow is not overspeeding the turbo near the top, unlike the smaller housing.
Julian
Ok, when you say "near the top" you mean T higher rpm? I was thinking surge tended to be low rpm problem with this turbo, hence people saying not to go full throttle at low rpm without a tune? Sorry for all the questions, it's just good to know what's going on and there seems to be a bunch of different opinions out there around this topic. Cheers
Vee_Que
It's life blowing through a thick straw vs a thin straw onto a wheel, both spin it. One takes a tad longer/spin it slower. Which is fine for the bigger wheel
Julian
Ok, thanks. Regardless of whether I go with an 18 or 19, is it possible to just buy the turbine wheel and have fitted to my existing chra with whatever balancing may be required? Or get the whole cartridge and use my existing compressor and turbine housings? Just trying to figure out whether buying a whole new turbo is required or whether I could build it from some of my existing parts.
Vee_Que
Need a machined compressor housing, a chra would be simpler and not much more considering balancing costs.
deleted_user_160
Fork out and buy the whole turbo, and then get some money back by selling your old turbo.
jamesinc
Yeah I've rebuilt turbos before and I just, don't even bother man, just buy a turbo brand spankers and save yourself a large quantity of headaches. Having the turbo rebuilt and re-balanced with the new compressor wheel is in itself almost as expensive (and sometimes way more expensive) than just buying a new turbo.
Ghettobird
Genuinely its going to make sweet F A of a difference on a mostly stock car if you go cast VS billet, The larger exhaust housing WILL make a difference up top in the rev-range, The "Spool control" is designed to stop you from eating a rod on a stock rod motor as the car wont spool as hard due to the clipping of the compressor blades - The car Alex is refering to is mine, totally untuned with H-beam rods, ported head, XC90 T5 Manifold and a high flowing exhaust, big F-Off intercooler, lightweight flywheel and a quaife
Its apples & oranges
The Kinugawa unit should be pretty good, get one with the billet compressor wheel as its not that much extra, bigger 7cm^2 exhaust housing, angled 3' DP, XC90 2.5T Manifold and you should be sweet
My only hangup on the 19ts is that they ARE rod benders, and if you are thinking of slapping one on without a proper tune then you may run into some exxy engine damage
Some have ran 19Ts in the past on a stock engine with only a manual boost controler and a rising rate FPR, but you are playing with fire
A safer alternative would be to go with a genuine 18T found on some of the V70Rs, green injectors with a nice DP and you would have a mad fun car, and not worry as much about your rods resembling bananas as much as you would with a 19T
Also considering your wagon dosnt have an LSD in it, anything bigger than an 18t would just rape tyres and change lanes for you on its own accord
Philia_Bear
The Kinagawa CHRA kits use aftermarket cast centers and generic bearings
I've had one apart and the quality was lower then genuine mitsubishi bits
My costs on the last 3 19t conversions were
$130 for a kinagawa 19t wheel and cold side housing from ebay shipped to my door
and
$500 to the turbo rebuild guy to
-Clean everything
-Mill out the CHRA for the bigger cold side wheel
-Rebuild using genuine mitsubishi bits
-Assemble
-High speed balance with report
-provide a warranty on work done
That still comes in less than just buying a kit off ebay and the quality is better
Ghettobird
Check this vid out for a bit of an idea - he is running sub 20 psi on an open diff car, its all over the place
Ghettobird
@Philia_Bear I got mine for very cheap in comparison to new, which is why It was a no-brainer for me
They seem like some reasonable numbers, Id definitely consider that route when i go through the process again
deleted_user_160
Don't be scared about the hoohaaa cheap inferior blablabla. Kinugawa is associated/subsidery with/of kmak.
Kinugawa do make quality units. They are manufactured in Taiwan to a very high standard. With both journal and Ball bearing options.
Meanwhile I'll reiterate how well my "eBay" t04e (t3/4) turbo has performed.
Almost 100,000klm of 22psi generic cheap, low quality Chinese junk as some would say. ;p
All is not what the internet says.
Philia_Bear
blondejay;106524 wroteDon't be scared about the hoohaaa cheap inferior blablabla. Kinugawa is associated/subsidery with/of kmak.
Kinugawa do make quality units. They are manufactured in Taiwan to a very high standard. With both journal and Ball bearing options.
Meanwhile I'll reiterate how well my "eBay" t04e (t3/4) turbo has performed.
Almost 100,000klm of 22psi generic cheap, low quality Chinese junk as some would say. ;p
All is not what the internet says.
Would you like side by side shots of the thrust bearings and other bits?
The Kinagawa stuff is within spec but the design is a poorer one that requires less machining and will not last as long
longevity is still probably >100,000km though instead of the >500,000km I expect to get out of the Mitsu's
I never said it was shit, I just said the OEM stuff was better
The ebay T4 on my mates IHI tractor is up to nearly 2000 hours of 30PSI work, Its near death now but he refuses to do anything about it until it explodes
Julian
Thanks again for the advice guys. I know there's probably a chance that a 19T would be fine, and appreciate the input from both sides, but am thinking that an 18T sounds like the safer choice and would achieve what I want anyway. I also had a chat to Mark from VP tuning who seemed to agree that the 18 is more drivable for the kind of stuff I do with the car.
If I put an 18T in does it still require an ecu tune for safe driving or is it ok with the standard ecu? I understand that I would get the most out of it with a tune but it might not happen straight away is all.
Also, I have some of the 450cc green injectors, if I put them in when I do the turbo swap does the ecu adjust for the different injectors at all or is it always going to use (450/350)=1.3 times as much fuel as it currently does?
Ghettobird
Do it all at the same time
Unless you have a wideband you are risking the engine BIG time
Save up and slap it all on
Injectors NEED a tune, the ECU knows how much fuel the stockies put out and needs to be adjusted - which is very easy to program
Get an xc90 2.5t manifold also
It will help her breathe :)
Julian
Are you referring to an exhaust from the xc90, or intake?
I have seen people say they upgrade to an "R manifold" for the exhaust but hadn't really heard about the xc90 one before
Philia_Bear
Im 99% sure he is talking exhaust
Ghettobird
Yup exhaust
Its the same as the R manifold, dont get duped by someone asking a kidney for one from an R... VERY worth while for how cheap they can be