jlfents
Alright. This is not an update on the turbo progress, more of a plea for any help as the car is not running.
Last night was pouring with rain. On the way home from the footy game I was changing lanes when a big long puddle came from out'a nowhere. Going 70km, it was a huge splash. Car immediately shut off and dashboard lit up.
Trying to restart, it would sound like it's caught on running but as soon as I disengage starter motor it would die. After a few tries it kind of started but extremely roughly. Sounded almost as if it was on one cylinder - definitely not four. Any kind of throttle input would kill it. Eventually after letting it sit for a couple of minutes missing and barely idling, I tried the throttle again and slowly got it reving. Once at 2 - 3k rpm it sounded and felt normal, no missing and happy to rev. Thought this is it, my only chance and started rolling keeping the revs at ~3k. After 10 meters or so it died and would not start again.
Half an hour later Dad arrived. Tried starting again and after say combined 20 sec of turning over ka-boooom. A huge backfire. Loudest Dad had ever heard, and he's had a fair bit of experience with cars from his 351... days. You get the idea. There was a 'huge' fireball under the car and a fair bit of smoke pursued - no fire. Called RACQ and tilt tray brought car home.
Today, the car will not start. Turn over but nothing else. It keeps backfiring now just much much smaller than last nights. Checked timing belt timing and everything looks ok. Not sure what else to look for, any help?
All fuses are good and everything looks dry.
carnut222
Check for moisture in distributor? Does it have the electronic ignition module on the right front chassis rail. Water damage to that? My thoughts. Or possible water ingestion into cylinders. Check air filter element. Hope it's nothing serious.
pauljloz
If you've had the ignition leads off double check the order is correct.
JocrisBeva
Ive fried the altenator driving through puddles on 2 occasions. But sounds to me like you have fried more than that. Unplug everything check for shorts and wait for it all to dry out as a first step maybe..
carnut222
pauljloz;130962 wroteIf you've had the ignition leads off double check the order is correct.
I second this as the possible backfire cause. I once put the distributor cap on backwards after checking the rotor and it backfired so hard it blew off the intake pipe.
jlfents
Thanks for your suggestions guys.
The fact that it is backfiring leads me to suggest there is spark. We have checked the spark leads removing and reinstalling one at a time to avoid bad ordering - looks dry. Removed cap and rotor, everything looks dry in distributor. It is possible ignition is now back to front considering the way it was backfiring today. I'm sure I lined up the notches correctly but will double check in morning. I have not yet checked the ign module. Will try compressed air, and the Sun would help too
Report back tomorrow.
Raebird
Air flow meter might have been damaged by the water maybe? Try unplugging the air flow meter and see if anything changes. I would suspect the leads are in the correct order seeing as the car was running fine before you hit the puddle...
Vee_Que
Kjet, so no airflow. But wet dizzy is my pick too based on killing my 264 at 17 when I washed it.
Raebird
Vee_Que;130989 wroteKjet, so no airflow. But wet dizzy is my pick too based on killing my 264 at 17 when I washed it.
Forgot it was already k-jet, my bad.
jlfents
No luck today.
The ignition is all as it should be; correct plug wire ordering and cap on the right way. I'm pretty sure whatever water that might have been in there is gone, and I used compressed air to be sure. Ign module looks good.
Same story regarding turning over. It backfires almost instantly and will keep doing that. I have double checked the timing belt and it all lines up.
Water pump seal seems to be failing too. I've noticed coolant on front of engine.
It just needed to run for six months problem free...
carnut222
Have you pulled the plugs to have a look at them? Did you pull the distributor rotor to have a look, and double confirm it lines up with cyl 1 mark on distributor body when it should? Long shot I have seen rotors go on the wrong way too. Hope you find something but the backfiring really does sound like a cap/rotor/plug wire issue. Frustrating to say the least. Good luck!
jlfents
I have checked all of that lots of times due to me second guessing myself. And yes I agree it has to be ignition related, I just have no clue what. I might just have to take it to the mechanic.
carnut222
OK how about this...check to make sure camshaft is turning? Could it be that either the timing belt cam or crank sprocket key sheared? Maybe the cam timing is way off somehow? Might be able to rotate crank with oil cap off and see if cam lobes point the correct orientation when cylinder 1 is at TDC? I know you checked timing marks on belt and pulleys but if pulley slipped on cam or crank that's what I'm talking about. Long shot but???? What else could it be? Bugger!
pauljloz
Do you have spark at the plugs?
Backfire indicates timing (firing order) related.
Like @carnut222 I too spent a long time trying to diagnose backfiring - it was incorrect cap or lead order (cant recall which).
Water damage unlikely if the air filter is intact. Compression test will rule in or out.
Did the backfire (flames under car) come out of the exhaust or blow off the intake ducting or even some of the larger k-jet vacuum hoses? Excess air will also cause a no start.
Essbos
Might be worth checking the little locator dowel on the Cam gear to make sure it's still straight and true. That could cause timing issues even of everything else lines up.
Maybe a compression check to rule out a stuck or damaged valve also.
jlfents
That's smart! I just went to turn crank now by hand and cam shaft is turning. Could be though that there is not enough rotational force to break friction so will pull pump fuses and try starter motor on tuesday, or maybe just check shaft orientation like you said. Have not looked to see if piston is at tdc when timing indicates it should be.
I am 100% sure ignition order is correct as I have checked what 4 times today. Although take this with a grain of salt as I am a learning home mechanic and not qualified in this at all.
I was thinking stuck/damaged valves today but never investigated. It is quite easy to rotate crank by hand (wrench), but I can hear compression. Will add compression check to the list.
Thanks guys, long shots are I all have!
carnut222
I can't take credit for this pic but please check again...and confirm rotor points to #1 plug wire when cam belt pulley marks are aligned.
tbro
If it will get you out of the shit I have a nearly complete 230 in the shop (@ Bribie) with dissy etc you can have.
Terry
Slowbrick
If you car is backfiring loudly then you have water in something ignition related. Grab yourself a can of electrical contact cleaner and start spraying on the contacts things. Pull your plug wires and confirm they arent hiding water between the boots and the contacts. Pull your plugs while you are there and unscrew the resistors to make sure water isnt hiding in those either.
Take off your dizzy cap, take off the rotor and have a look under that little plastic plate. There might be water hiding in the hall effect assembly. Check inside the cap and look closely in the little spring loaded button. Check if for water ingress.
Pull the coil wire and check for water hiding deep at the bottom of the connector. Confirm the + and - spade connectors are dry.
Ive had a 240 turbo do what you are describing and it was after i pressure washed the engine bay. Ended up being water stuck inside the plug boots. Much like you it would crank for a bit and then do a very loud backfire without really starting.
Good luck!
Raebird
@jlfents if you would like a fresh set of eyes to look at it, I’m happy to come over and help diagnose the problem if you like?
