244, one rev then dies, fuel relays/pumps

Biggles

Hi,

So I recently bought Spac's white 244 (kjet) and I've been working through getting it sorted. When it got off the trailer the idle was very unhappy and it refused to rev above 1100rpm, just coughed and burbled a bit no matter what throttle was given. I could hear at least one pump priming, I believe the main. It didn't sound great however I was given a spare with the car. Spac believed the in tanked pump was blocked or had failed.

This probably didn't help:

The next time I tried to start the car there was no priming heard and the car failed to start. I assumed the main followed the in tank pump to its deathbed however upon testing the connections for both pumps found no power was reaching them.

The fuel pump relay was swapped out and a working one swapped in; with both pumps suddenly working again. The in tank pump is definitely pumping fuel, no idea how much or at what pressure though.

The car then runs again however does one 'vroom' and dies again. Once its a bit warmer it may last a few more seconds, dropping down to 4-600 rpm before dying.

I intend to swap the noisy main pump with a (hopefully) good spare one. The in tank pump doesn't sound noisy, is it worth changing/checking regardless? I don't really feel like spending the $120 Repco quoted for a new in tank pump, anyone have a decent used or can recommend a cheaper aftermarket option? How's this: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-VDO-ALFA-ROMEO-75-90-GTV-VOLVO-240-260-740-760-940-960-FUEL-PUMP-IN-TANK-/261497135301?hash=item3ce271a0c5:g:HtkAAOxymmJTj7MM

Lastly, is it just a coincidence the fuel pump relay failed when it did or was it caused by the pumps somehow? Just would like to know before I destroy another.

Thanks for any help!

Slowbrick

Oh so you bought Hippy! Congrats.

Ok so the thing with Kjet cars is vacuum is everything. If you have a vacuum leak then it will run like poo or not run at all. Go round and check all of the vac lines for brittleness and replace as required. Pull the large bellows off from the throttle body and make sure the plate is able to move freely. If the plate doesnt move then the pumps wont run. You can test this by putting the key into the "ON" position and lift the plate up with your fingers. You should hear the pumps run. Clean and lubricate the plate arm before reassembling.

Next thing is to pull the injectors and check for any broken o-rings. The inner rings dont normally fail but the large skinny outer ones do. These will make your car run crap if one or more are broken.

I would also throw on a new fuel filter. A noisy pump is usually a sign of a restriction whether it be before the pump causing it to cavitate or after the pump causing it to work harder to push the fuel. It can also be caused by low voltage getting to the pump so it may also be a good idea to go round and check for corrosion on any pins/fuses that lead to the pump.

Hope this helps!

Fingers

Ok so the thing with Kjet cars is vacuum is everything. If you have a vacuum leak then it will run like poo or not run at all. Go round and check all of the vac lines for brittleness and replace as required. Pull the large bellows off from the throttle body and make sure the plate is able to move freely. If the plate doesnt move then the pumps wont run. You can test this by putting the key into the "ON" position and lift the plate up with your fingers. You should hear the pumps run. Clean and lubricate the plate arm before reassembling.

This.....mmmmmmm

Biggles

I replaced the in tank and main pumps after a bit of hassle. Fuel was very dirty, drained it and put new 98 fuel in along with some metho and injection cleaner. Also replaced rubber return and feed lines from the tank to main pump along with fuel filter. There was a fair bit of dirt in the old fuel filter.

Car still did one vroom and died, lasted longer the more I tried, best time was about a minute. Adding throttle made the car die. Pulled the air hose off and sprayed some 'start ya bastard' in and the car revved up no worries!

Found that both vacuum lines going to the evap canister were broken, replaced them, (I know I should have checked these earlier). Pulled injector number 1, checked for spray pattern, seemed okay but I'm not exactly sure. O ring was completely dead, ordered some more however have only replaced the one I pulled so far.

Car doesnt die after a few start now however does not rev up more than 2-300 rpm from idle. Pedal to the floor no longer kills the engine however nothing happens other than a few coughs, burbles and pops.

Removed the intake bellows and checked the plate. It was a little dirty but there was no real resistance to lifting, felt fairly smooth. Whatever the area is below the plate looked quite dirty, will spray some carb cleaner in there.

Hooked up the jumper cables, put the key to on, lifted the plate but nothing happened. Can confirm both pumps primed normally, but did not fire again when the plate was lifted. What does this mean?

Any more ideas? Only other things I'm doing is replacing the remaining three injector O rings, not sure where to go after that. Cheers!

tbro

Sounds to me like the plunger in the fuel distribution head is jammed.
https://ozvolvo.org/discussion/2767/als-145-barn-find/p4
Have a read, DO NOT use emery or any sanding type material to clean it, metho, carby cleaner even your finger nails and be bloody careful you don't drop it.
http://www.k-jet.org/ lots of usefuliness

Angus242164

It definitely sounds like you are on the right track, I think there is a lack of fuel pressure, so it's getting enough fuel to match the volume of air going through the engine at idle now, but once more air is added, there isn't enough fuel to sustain a rich enough mixture for it to keep running.

A fuel pressure gauge with appropriate adapter fittings will tell you whether enough pressure is available to the fuel distributor. If the pressure is OK, tezza may be right about a stuck metering plunger in the fuel distributor. It might be worth removing and carefully inspecting/cleaning.

Philia_Bear

Everything on kjet is about the fuel pressure
Get a guage and measure it

peterwgpa

If it ends up being your fuel distributor or warm up regulator I can recommend a guy in Brisbane http://www.k-jet.biz/ that recos them on exchange or will do yours. He has been doing them for 20 plus years.

Biggles

Okay, looks like a fuel pressure tester is the go. Anything I need to get specifically? Fittings, pressure ratings etc? Will probably go for an inexpensive ebay/supercheap kit if I can.

Angus242164

@DCW242 is working on putting together a K-Jet specific set of adaptors for a pressure gauge at the moment I think.

bigal

3 screws to undo that fuel distributer (don't open the distributer itself, just seperate the distributer from the aluminium casing underneath). Turn it over and see how that piston is behaving. Very quick and easy to see if that's the problem or not. Mine would bog down and die after a rev and wouldnt start again for a while, eventually so bad it refused to start at all.. Full on flooding in my case. See my thread as mentioned above.

Biggles

Thank you all for the suggestions so far.

-Pulled apart the fuel distributor enough to lift the plunger out, saw some scoring on the side but it seemed to move freely in and out. Gave it a quick clean with carby cleaner and a microfibre. Couldn't get a good look into the shaft given where it was without a lot more work. No change before or after this process

-Pulled the injectors and placed them into bottles, with the fuel pumps priming at ignition position with the plate lifted, all four had a decent spray with no major differences in volume

-Have distributor loose to play around with timing, at best point it still doesn't change its behaviour

-Got a fuel gauge hooked up to it today (massive thanks @egads) between the control pressure regulator and the fuel distributor. Primes up nicely to approx 70psi, smack bang in the middle of the range as quoted by the greenbook. Is dropping from there if left without pumps running, main pump has a dribble leak assume its this and not critical to the car running when the pumps are on?

-NRMA guy had to come around for an issue with another car and offered to have a look. Pretty much went over everything I had and came to the conclusion that it must be somewhere in the fuel distributor block. As I found as well, it ran a lot better when he sprayed fuel into a vacuum port on the injection manifold. Just curious, he mentioned there may be a gauze filter in a fuel line somewhere that could be clogged, has anyone heard of that?

Unfortunately I'm only getting less time to work on the car and I will need to get rid of it in a few months if I can't get it going. Real shame, has plenty of potential but it has me on my last legs. At this stage I can't justify putting more money into the car with a replacement distributor block given nothing has worked so far. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers

Biggles

Anyone have any ideas on where to look next? Appreciate any guidance, cheers

lasercowboy

I had a similar(ish) recent error on the 240, where i wasn't getting fuel. It turned out to be the pre-fuel pump relay fuse. Even though it showed continuity (i.e. wasn't blown) it clearly wasn't letting enough current through to actuate the relay. Happened randomly too, not gradually. So if you suspect a fuel issues, it's always worth to check your connections, fuses and earths to make sure all are clean and conducting as they should.

1971_144GL

Sounds like the warm up regular is giving grief, it is the rectangular alloy box with fuel lines on the side of the engine. The internal aparture is easy blocked and can cause the whole system to fail. They can be carefully dismantled, cleaned and reassembled. But they are fragile.