FWD manual gearboxes.

I'm confused...

M59 = 850R Box (essentially M56 with LSD)

The axles pull out fairly easy, they may need a gentle tap with a hammer to come out though. To remove the passenger side axle put a wedge between the gearbox and axle and hammer.
My 850R has a M58 as I blew the M59 up. I plan to either get a M56 driver's side GB bell housing or a complete M56 box so I can eliminate the stupid M59 LSD axle's and run a 'real' LSD.
My M58 box has a sticker that states M58L 4,0. P1208915 (first part of sticker missing)T103227

My box just doesn't have the angle gear bolted to it.

Does anyone know the limitations from the m58 or whatever attainable awd manual box? im in the middle of a lot of mods and one for my current stage is doing a manual conversion, but eventually would love to set my '96 850R up for AWD when I get the $ for it. Don't suppose anyone recalls what the stock limitations are on the auto box so I know how long I have to go until im more likely to blow up my box? cheers

Auto box , going by what happens on TB and Volvospeed is pretty good up to ohh , 300+HPowers , it will vary of course due to how box was treated before! There is dude on VS looking at spending $8000 to get Level 10 Auto Shop to do his , cos he is disabled and likes drag racing! It has had mixed success having to go back a couple of times to fix.
Just clean out the oold fluid , do the line pressure modification ( See VS) maybe the accumulator mod too and go for it. It is after all the same box as Nissan,GMH and Ford used internally.
The AWD using a good box its good to look at what Hussein has done

volvospeed.com/vs_forum/user/23058-lookforjoe/


And here.

volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/78328-what-to-know-about-a-manual-swap/

Look around VS , plenty of stuff , TB too.

sweet thanks for that, I will check into it all tonight. I was up until 2am last night going through this sites list of online shops to deal with for parts so I think tonight is going to be a late one again lol

I don't spend much time on VS but im on TB every day, its good to see a aussie community setting themselves up though (besides the bruces thread on TB)

I do know they put a bit of power through the M56/8s and for sure Hussain does with his M66 (Ford Focus XR5 Turbo , C30 T5 , V50T5 ) 6 spd , near on 500 HP or more?
I dont think we will get near that unless we do some very serious mods and ECU work , Hussain goes into the minute parts of the TurboTuner mapping to set parameters , beuond me i am afraid!

really.. very interesting that someone is getting those numbers on a Volvo box.. and 6 spd? that's awesome for a whole other reason. Im chasing those kinds of numbers but know that swapping to AWD not just manual is going to be a big headache. Im in the middle of porting out the head, sourcing rods, turbos, water injection, ecu upgrades etc etc etc. and just sourcing the parts is taking a long time due to their costs. As I currently stand I cant set tuning parameters myself as I don't understand them enough to even pretend I know so im limited to ecu swaps from ARD (best ive found so far). I don't mind having the R apart for as long as it takes as I bought it solely as a project car and I have a few DD's to fill in the gaps.

ps. Holy Crap - $8000 for a gearbox? I don't even plan to spend that amount on my entire build including the cost of the 850R itself! He would be better off buying a auto box for each drag race :)

One thing i found in ,y search was that cryogenic treating of all moving parts makes for a smoother and longer lasting unit be it gearbox , including autos and engines and diffs. It normalises the structure of the metal ( look at my crap analagy , i learnt all that stuff way back when!!) There are places to do it in capital cities , i never got any quptes though.
I think then that you will now be spending at least $20,000 as the cost estimate is usually a third or quarter of what you actually spend!
Maybe ask Hussain about TTUsb , you will be severely limited by what Lucky can do from afar , if you start off with tirboTunerUsb , Hussain and Johann can help and Johann i think? has base maps for you to run as he has built up various tunes progressively getting more radical. You can then tune yourself vis the data logging and seatof pants or use a dynoo for some of it , you will always have a base map to switch to if you have the lptop in the car all the time during testing , TT gives you that option. Whereas ARD tunes whilst they can be done via the USB , need Lucky to know what and where and when and with those sorts of power figyres you are chasing you want the tuning done at home.... PM Hussain , i did the other day and have no fear about the power through the AWD or angle gear , he has had no problem , the only thing with the AWD Volvo system is it is critical to have all the same size and brand and tread tyres and they MUST be within 1.50mm (2/32?) in tread depth or damage can occur. The rear Viscous Coupling ( VC ) is silicon oil filled and as the heat builds up the plates mesh and take up drive locking up at high heat . I would go the 6 spd , i hated my 850R 5 speed around town with the dumb high first gear and big step up to second to stop wheelspin. The least you can do is get a Quaife , the STD R LSD is useless. The 6spd sratios should aleviate the ratio jump of 1-2 which on my R was only good on big open sweepers , too big a change for around The Great Ocean Road as it left me in no mans land or spinning wildly and believe me , there are no tyres to control it , i tried track tyres too...
I sit on the fence on water injection , if you have good fuel why are you putting a non burning substance in the mix? Just make it fuelled properly with proper tuning and proper fuel , water / meth maybe? I leave it to Johann and Hussein on that front as to do or not. Money best spent on other things i think as its not cheap!.

Ex850R;12713 wroteOne thing i found in ,y search was that cryogenic treating of all moving parts makes for a smoother and longer lasting unit be it gearbox , including autos and engines and diffs. It normalises the structure of the metal ( look at my crap analagy , i learnt all that stuff way back when!!) There are places to do it in capital cities , i never got any quptes though.
I think then that you will now be spending at least $20,000 as the cost estimate is usually a third or quarter of what you actually spend!
Maybe ask Hussain about TTUsb , you will be severely limited by what Lucky can do from afar , if you start off with tirboTunerUsb , Hussain and Johann can help and Johann i think? has base maps for you to run as he has built up various tunes progressively getting more radical. You can then tune yourself vis the data logging and seatof pants or use a dynoo for some of it , you will always have a base map to switch to if you have the lptop in the car all the time during testing , TT gives you that option. Whereas ARD tunes whilst they can be done via the USB , need Lucky to know what and where and when and with those sorts of power figyres you are chasing you want the tuning done at home.... PM Hussain , i did the other day and have no fear about the power through the AWD or angle gear , he has had no problem , the only thing with the AWD Volvo system is it is critical to have all the same size and brand and tread tyres and they MUST be within 1.50mm (2/32?) in tread depth or damage can occur. The rear Viscous Coupling ( VC ) is silicon oil filled and as the heat builds up the plates mesh and take up drive locking up at high heat . I would go the 6 spd , i hated my 850R 5 speed around town with the dumb high first gear and big step up to second to stop wheelspin. The least you can do is get a Quaife , the STD R LSD is useless. The 6spd sratios should aleviate the ratio jump of 1-2 which on my R was only good on big open sweepers , too big a change for around The Great Ocean Road as it left me in no mans land or spinning wildly and believe me , there are no tyres to control it , i tried track tyres too...
I sit on the fence on water injection , if you have good fuel why are you putting a non burning substance in the mix? Just make it fuelled properly with proper tuning and proper fuel , water / meth maybe? I leave it to Johann and Hussein on that front as to do or not. Money best spent on other things i think as its not cheap!.

Yeah that is absolutely some next level stuff that I don't think I would need for the next decade or 2 when I start chasing a few thousand HP instead of a few hundred.. still I think its cool that the option is there, but if your getting that done your probably not doing the engine work yourself.. oh to be rich :)

Holy shit that is cool as fuck (I hope this site censors swearing) about the ttusb. That is something I have wanted for the last decade and was stoked when I had a car with obd2 instead of one as it had some computerised readouts.. I am definitely going to be doing A LOT of reading to catch up on this product then chase up the guys in the know you suggest.

Man.. I didn't know the AWD was so sensitive, mind you I don't find it hard to stick by those guidelines, but still..

Yeah about the water injection, I meant to say that I would always be running 50/50 water and meth, never more than 50% meth especially but preferably half n half. My worry or want for that matter, is that I make my setup run as cold as humanly possible, using the largest oversize intercooler & radiator as I can fit, water/meth injection, intake manifold spacer.. any other wacky idea to get air venting into the engine bay.. not so much for the power gain that comes with the cooler air, but the less heat in the engine to help with the durability of the parts so I can really abuse how much pressure I want to get out of the turbo especially.. I know there is a power increase and fuel economy maybe in running the water/meth but its really for me a great addition for engine cooling. I've seen a few cheap kits from good sources (some listed on this site) that end up being cheaper than an intercooler (not as a replacement for an intercooler mind you)

Spac;12720 wroteIn the reading I've done, it seems that an M56 will last almost indefinitely at around 300kW. The lifespan diminishes from there.
But AWDs load up boxes a lot more - where a 2WD's wheelspin will limit the torque loading, an AWD will really punish the box.

That's pretty cool for the Volvo box.. and a very basic one too. My old boss I had at a Volvo place I worked at used to tell me that whilst an awd gets the power down to all wheels, it is quite weak as it has so many moving parts and is distributing the power so far instead of to just a pair of wheels.. and preferably the rwd setup was always going to be better. That's what I cant fully grasp as I feel that that amount of power is always going to be better off being sent to more wheels as it massively increases your traction.

I don't suppose you would (or anyone) would know of anything to do to a Volvo's awd system for it to happily handle around the 500hp mark and to not really spin the wheels much.. to assist with drag racing that is

also Is there such a thing as deleting the fwd part of an awd setup and beefing up the rear driveshaft to handle the extra power or is it just dumb to go from awd to rwd as awd is the perfect design?

740nut;12724 wrote

Spac;12720 wroteIn the reading I've done, it seems that an M56 will last almost indefinitely at around 300kW. The lifespan diminishes from there.
But AWDs load up boxes a lot more - where a 2WD's wheelspin will limit the torque loading, an AWD will really punish the box.

That's pretty cool for the Volvo box.. and a very basic one too. My old boss I had at a Volvo place I worked at used to tell me that whilst an awd gets the power down to all wheels, it is quite weak as it has so many moving parts and is distributing the power so far instead of to just a pair of wheels.. and preferably the rwd setup was always going to be better. That's what I cant fully grasp as I feel that that amount of power is always going to be better off being sent to more wheels as it massively increases your traction.

I don't suppose you would (or anyone) would know of anything to do to a Volvo's awd system for it to happily handle around the 500hp mark and to not really spin the wheels much.. to assist with drag racing that is

also Is there such a thing as deleting the fwd part of an awd setup and beefing up the rear driveshaft to handle the extra power or is it just dumb to go from awd to rwd as awd is the perfect design?

Hussein is getting the 500hp and doing drg runs with his STD XC70 AWD setup , no need to do anything to it except a later S60R driveshaft or output bearing i believe?
Yopu cant make it RWD , the angle gear is only meant for a smaller amount of power that the volvo AWD system enables it to via the VC.

that is really good.. I bet he frickin loves having all that traction.. so many of the people doing builds on FWD's don't bother with going all out and going AWD. Looks like I have myself a new idol ;) Sounds like not too much besides fitting it all up.. mind you it would need a custom exhaust and probably remove somehow the spare wheel well.. looks like I have a bit to do but lots of fun coming my way

You could bolt the body of 850 onto xc70 and be way ahead. There is guy on TB in UK who did the swap from xc awd ststem using volvo parts from desler for brackets etc and c70 front subframe ( stronger than all others) Maybe gut the R , use body and seats etc onto xc ? Same platform. Save hell of a lot of work and engineering for rego is easy!

LOL f*ck dude that is really out there.. sounds cool though.. I think I should buy all equipment first, make the R go again, rego it quick then swap everything over. It just sounds like something queensland transport would shit bricks over. but hey I don't know anything about swapping vehicle bodies from one to another so maybe it wouldn't be so difficult.

What would be involved in doing something like that, and especially without access to a vehicle hoist.. I know some mechanics that im on really good terms with but I couldn't tie up a hoist for myself though.

Also.. I've been checking out the ttusb site.. that is so glorious it makes my eyes swell up.. seeing that site just put me forward in my vehicle upgrades by a good year or so. There is no reason as I see it to go for anything but that. Though I do have the m4.3 and an auto ecu - it seems like it is beneficial to upgrade to a m4.4 and an automatic ecu doesn't seem like it will work well with a manual box.. I don't suppose you would know if the problems from each could be fixed with the ttusb? - it seems like it can pretty much handle anything thrown at it

holy sh!t.. that's like a james bond car! nice.. wouldn't mind a drive.. hell I wouldn't mind getting driven over by that haha

My current head turner is my '89 cbr250r.. larger custom exhaust pipes and with a 19,000rpm redline it definitely is a bit of fun. especially as I still have 8 months on a learners restricted license. I started pulling it apart a few days a go to swap out pistons and valve stem seals as it was smoking a bit and parts for it are REDICULOUSLY cheap (New pistons set with rings for $100)

So the whole manual ecu issue was sorted is what you were saying?
By the looks of the ttusb site they have been around for a few years.. I wonder why more people don't go for it, or at least talk about tt more - maybe I just need to open up my eyes a bit more.

Once I sort myself out a bit more over the next few weeks I need to be chasing these guys up for a few of their custom tunes. I want some severely aggressive ones, and also some really tame ones.

ttusb for my application definitely seems to be perfect, though I do see the need for a more plug and play design ecu. There is a number of companies doing them for whiteblocks and amongst all of them ARD seem to have the best numbers, and buying direct from ARD is cheaper than not.

.. v70T - is that a 16t?

I've recently been thinking about doing some sort of swapping around of the RN engines or heads, in the way that a few years back I was making a hybrid from the b230ft and a b234.. I cant think of a direct benefit at the moment.. maybe 'cos im not schooled in their benefits yet..

Ha , I said I would never have a car. Got learners on Yamaha RD250LC , the 350 had twin front discs so I got that with 250 stickers , same same but more torque for a two stroke twin. Then after a couple of fun dirt bikes , xt500 Yamy , 250 stickers...sticky enduro tyres made for fum on twisty raids! It was a Suzuki RG 500 square four two stroke that I had two of , absolute epic power in the day , I rode the first GSXR750 Suzuki which was nice but waited for the RG to come out , Barry Sheene race replica! Wish I still had em , worth a lot more than any gsxr is!
I reckon you can't swap the body , its monocoque , shit I forgot that! Maybe ditch the sedan and get a turbo 850 wagon and go from there? Or XC and make an R like Hussain's!

You could start with ARD and go TT later but cost wise , if you can get onto the dudes who will give you some maps you just load em up and work from there with arse dyno and what AFR s you get etc via the data logging which ARD hasn't got yet.

The RN head can be a great upgrade but the extra 100cc in 2.4 against 2.3lt does help.
That's why I like my V70T , 2.5 (2.4 really) 13g makes good low down and the ARD makes it a torque monster , very nice. With a 18/19T and R manifold and injectors it should be pretty good for a bolt up job. That motor will go in the V70R if I ever get it from South Australia!

Ex850R;12745 wroteHa , I said I would never have a car. Got learners on Yamaha RD250LC , the 350 had twin front discs so I got that with 250 stickers , same same but more torque for a two stroke twin. Then after a couple of fun dirt bikes , xt500 Yamy , 250 stickers...sticky enduro tyres made for fum on twisty raids! It was a Suzuki RG 500 square four two stroke that I had two of , absolute epic power in the day , I rode the first GSXR750 Suzuki which was nice but waited for the RG to come out , Barry Sheene race replica! Wish I still had em , worth a lot more than any gsxr is!
I reckon you can't swap the body , its monocoque , shit I forgot that! Maybe ditch the sedan and get a turbo 850 wagon and go from there? Or XC and make an R like Hussain's!

You could start with ARD and go TT later but cost wise , if you can get onto the dudes who will give you some maps you just load em up and work from there with arse dyno and what AFR s you get etc via the data logging which ARD hasn't got yet.

The RN head can be a great upgrade but the extra 100cc in 2.4 against 2.3lt does help.
That's why I like my V70T , 2.5 (2.4 really) 13g makes good low down and the ARD makes it a torque monster , very nice. With a 18/19T and R manifold and injectors it should be pretty good for a bolt up job. That motor will go in the V70R if I ever get it from South Australia!

Was that you got a '250' for your LAMS, but it was actually a 350 with 250 stickers on it? lol.. I didn't even think there was such a thing as a 350. My 250r has 250RR decals on it. the repsol fairings that stoner is.. was riding with the other year.

I always thought bikes were dangerous and you would for ever be coming off the f*ckers but always wanted to get on one.. so I sacked up, got on this 4 stroke 4 cylinder and fell in love.. I initially thought it was heavy and too powerful and revved way too high.. now I love it and am looking for more grunt. Ive never been on a 2 stroke and cant really imagine what they would be like.. im guessing pretty quick.. but I have no comprehension for how they handle though.

My mate swears by Suzuki's.. he bought a .. '08 boulevard from a Honda dealer and it is definitely one of the sexiest bikes ive ever seen. Any Barry Sheene replica is going to make you hop off the bike with stains on the seat or a big smile on your face. or both.

That sucks that it wont fit.. but I suppose I could always just roll up some fenders and put on some wider wheel guards, bigger wheel spacers and fit the widest possible wheels I can to grab more traction and use slicks.. I still think that if I leave it on a high tune im going to go through tyres way too quick considering my old stock 850R used to lay down 40m+ lines anywhere when I stomped it.. And yeah I cant get rid of the 850R as I have sentimental feelings for this one (I had an exact copy a few years ago before I sold it to pay bills)

.. and monocock?.. aren't we all?

Yeah the ARD ecu is around half the price of the ttusb.. and the ttusb is definitely not near my budget at all.. but its just so awesome. I think I will need to be doing a lot of budgeting and pick up another job (woe is the life of a poor uni student.. hot chicks make up for it though)

I still need to get a wideband sensor, but before I do that I need to learn what a wideband sensor is lol. I keep reading about the need fo rthem but cant figure out what I do with it.

Yeah the extra displacement always helps.. especially when that's like the size of 2 scooter engines. any little bit helps.. I bet the flow is probably better in the RN heads and likely stronger blocks.. interesting enough I stumbled across a post before of someone saying that the auto box's were strongest in the 850's and are weaker and cheaper in the RN models.

What are you looking for in your ride? is it a DD so you need to keep it fairly reliable, or are you wanting to squeeze all the Horses from it or a bit in between?

f*ck I type a lot.

Might be slightly OT there gents...

Ohh Man of few words....

lol.. I specifically started applying for heaps of jobs today to do alongside uni purely just to finance my Volvo addiction :)

I do like the m66 in my s40

This was my last m56 4:45 final drive box after a hard change from 1st to 2nd on the drag strip, also had similar with a m59 box, fitted a quailfe diff now and all seems good in a m56l2 4:25 box

Planet gears straight out off it mate and sorry my mate blagged the bits that were left

The 4:45 boxes usually came out of the 2l 10v over here great for acceleration but no good for 5th gear long runs feels like you need another gear

Spac;69254 wroteExactly why I want the 4.45s!

(And I forgot about your UKness - still be happy to pay for bits - I'm currently looking at importing a whole box from the UK, so your bits would probably still seem cheap).

Only ukness for another 222 days not that I'm counting lol, if you find something you want over here let me know I work as a truckie doing air and sea freight so can get stuff collected for peanuts compared to others and could sort shipping if the seller's won't ship overseas

Jamest5r_;69256 wrote

Spac;69254 wroteExactly why I want the 4.45s!

(And I forgot about your UKness - still be happy to pay for bits - I'm currently looking at importing a whole box from the UK, so your bits would probably still seem cheap).

Only ukness for another 222 days not that I'm counting lol, if you find something you want over here let me know I work as a truckie doing air and sea freight so can get stuff collected for peanuts compared to others and could sort shipping if the seller's won't ship overseas

Kool , maybe you will need a giant container once we all have cars we want brought over.....