'Minty' The 240 Wagon

Samman88 · 2015-06-22T14:51:14+00:00

Hey all, With 2015 came a few updates on Minty. This began by going to the Pick-a-Parts (I think I'm addicted to these places) and picking up some parts out...

Andy

Oh when I made my manifold I found that the cylinders 2 and 3 are spaced at 108mm and the outer ones are at 105mm

Vee_Que

Looks to complicated to me, no need to touch the rocker cover at all unless the other two breathers prove it to be a hassle! Otherwise its a lot of work for basically a slightly more powerful than stock turbo build...

I had b230ft pistons and b230fb pistons. Both from squirter blocks next to each other the other day, identical. Unless the person I got the ft pistons from was lying.

GingerNinja

Vee_Que;57613 wroteI had b230ft pistons and b230fb pistons. Both from squirter blocks next to each other the other day, identical. Unless the person I got the ft pistons from was lying.

Isn't there more dish in the top of the turbo piston for lower compression? 8.7:1 compared to 9.8:1

Vee_Que

Came from a 95 b230ft/the low pressure turbo. As its been previously said the ring height is lower. But it could only be for earlier motors.

Samman88

Hey @Andy thanks! I've just got some larger injectors so will most likely do as you say untill I start running e85.
The only reason I'm not running a factory B230 PCV is because I don't have one and my intake piping is not stock.

Yep you are right for sure @Vee_Que I most likely won't make much more power than a stock b230 will at first and it is alot of work but I'm just upgrading bits at a time.
Basically just going to get her running then upgrade the next thing that is a restriction.

I'm not sure about the pistons that you have but apparently turbo pistons are dished providing lower compression and the rings sit lower (meaning you can mill more off them)

My idle will sound like a rotary now.

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1600cc

Vee_Que

That's excessive for only 200hp! Sell them and buy 600cc ones! they will just chew fuel rather than make you power!

Mill the pistons? What? You deck blocks and heads...

The clean piston is from a 93' squirter non turbo, the dirty identical one is from a 95' b230ft lpt motor. Maybe they went to the one piston later, as the earlier b230 pistons are dimpled instead....

Samman88

Yeah super excessive I know. But I got them really cheap and maybe I'll use them as secondary injectors in the future.

As for the pistons, yep, mill them down 2mm to get compression to 8.8:1 if they are N/A pistons or you can mill down turbo pistons more (because they have more height above rings) 3mm to get CR into the 7s. You could turn them down also...probably be the better way to do it.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=286614&page=2

As far as I'm aware they never increased the compression of turbo motors to that of N/A so pistons should have always been different. I could be wrong though Volvo did some weird things with substituting components into engines!

Vee_Que

Later motors are lower c.R na too Iirc.

Reducing piston deck height is bad I think, tight squish has proven to be better for these motors.

Andy

Don't worry about knocking the compression down. LS guys run 18psi of boost with 10.7:1 compression ratios. Run a good fueling strategy to cool the chamber down and you'll be fine.

By milling the pistons down you will be effecting two things:
1). How effective the flame propergates across the combustion chamber at top dead centre. Ideally you want to concentrate the burn in an area as small as possible.

2). Having no squish around the edge of the piston crown will allow far more heat to effect the top piston ring. Once this expands and butts together you will tear the ring lands off your pistons.

If you are studying engineering then you will get access to the SAE digital library, we do and I use it all the time. Worth a look, plenty of knowledge stored there.

Those 1600s are old school and have a crap spray pattern, piss them off. Hunt around for the correct size for your desired power goals. EV14 style injectors are pretty damn good.

Samman88

I'm not too worried about CR as now I have a proper manifold, plans for E85, large intercooler, wideband and aftermarket ems. What I said previously about turning down pistons was simply to explain what others were doing. I have no plans to personally do this.

I have access to it and have read some of the bibles on engine design and tuning whilst doing FSAE, pretty good introduction and useful to an extent but majority of info is pretty generic...but still applicable.

I'll be working with the Bosch indys for now. Yeah they're old school but so is my B230 so they should get on. Worst case I'll just use the Saab 350cc injectors untill I find some 600cc EV14 injectors like you say.

Thanks for the input though @Andy it is appreciated!

Tigabu

Andy;58012 wrote 2). Having no squish around the edge of the piston crown will allow far more heat to effect the top piston ring. Once this expands and butts together you will tear the ring lands off your pistons.

This is the biggest problem.

Taking material off the top of pistons is a cheap and dirty way to get HC. It is a false economy.

Vee_Que

The link doesn't work but in all my years on tbricks I never saw people taking anything off pistons..

Samman88

Sorry! Here is the link again. Hopefully it works this time?

turbobricks.org/forums/showthread.php?s=b12c361d63041e685a1214035aabc380&t=286614

Tigabu

Interesking!

Vee_Que

Very. But a one off also. Every other high hp build uses aftermarket pistons ;)

Slowbrick

Don't worry about the CR. Im running a b230FX+T @12psi and its for the most part fine. I'm still on LH2.2 with stock orange tops. I only get ping on hard boost onset but if I just roll into it I get none. An FX runs a 9.3:1 compression which is due to the head. If you are running a B230 and want to drop the compression just get yourself a 531 head. You can also run a more aggressive turbo cam like the KG2T which will also help drop your dynamic CR.

If you are running an aftermarket EMS you will be able to tune to the higher compression. Honda guys run something like 11:1 compression and make good power. I like the work so far! Its good to see people getting their hands dirty and not just benchrace!

Samman88

Thanks @Slowbrick that is reassuring! I do have plans to go with a 531 in the near future as I have one sitting on my bench. The only thing stopping me from doing it now is that I would like to coincide the head change with a new timing belt, head gasket, adjustable came gear etc, none of which I have collected yet.
Interesting about the dynamic compression ratio, I hadn't really considered that before now. There is a turbo cam in this engines future but will likely coincide that with some valve work.
Thanks for the kind words!

Vee_Que

Kg2t is the best bet we've found too. Ipd turbo cam is just lumpy. will be cheaper than your ic cost!

Samman88

Vee_Que

So the car will never get done then?

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