I wouldn't bother with a kit, the bore will be stuffed if its been sitting around too long, and they aren't expensive either.
'Minty' The 240 Wagon
i bought a brand new slave for less than $200 not that long ago, the rubber line to the slave was almost more expensive
7 days later
Was that locally sourced or online? How's it gone? All done?
Hey @Vee_Que, I'll write up another post when I get some free time!
Unfortunately couldn't finish the wiring before going back to uni. I will give it another crack when I go home next weekend. Plans have also changed with the manifold and the dump pipe will have to be redesigned which makes me wonder whether to do the whole exhaust while I'm at it.
But in the meantime, I leave you with this - as she sits currently.
[/img]
Cheers,
Sam
Unfortunately couldn't finish the wiring before going back to uni. I will give it another crack when I go home next weekend. Plans have also changed with the manifold and the dump pipe will have to be redesigned which makes me wonder whether to do the whole exhaust while I'm at it.
But in the meantime, I leave you with this - as she sits currently.
[/img]Cheers,
Sam
damn, looks nice.
are you running the alternator still on the drivers side or has it been moved across to under the p/s pump?
trying to figure if i'll be able to squeeze mine in the stock 240 spot or it i'll need to make up new brackets
are you running the alternator still on the drivers side or has it been moved across to under the p/s pump?
trying to figure if i'll be able to squeeze mine in the stock 240 spot or it i'll need to make up new brackets
So you bought an eBay manifold or made one?
Looks like a ebay one.... mmm I would like to try one I reckon they would be ok properly supported bracing wise and ceramic coated...
4 days later
Hey All,
This is the sixth installment in my build thread. Unfortunately this is where progress stalls for the next few weeks as I have relocated to Melbourne to continue uni for this semester without the car.
This will be as much a 'ask for advice'/'bench-racing' post as a build update so any input would be super helpful.
Pedal box
This was not a really fun job, but not half as bad as people make it out to be. I would probably budget a day to remove and install one properly.
There are a few ways to skin this cat but contrary to popular belief, the newer 'pedal box firewall plates' are not all drilled/fabricated for both auto and manual pedals - Volvo seemed to follow no specific logic when doing this as it is roughly 50/50 all through the years apparently - but lucky for you if your auto plate has the clutch hole!
Mine didn't and so the easiest way to do this is; (I was busy, didn't take pics, sorry)
- disconnect throttle cable
- remove drivers seat
- position yourself on your back with a torch
- undo all the bolts and nuts holding the plate onto the firewall.
- remove the sound deadening and undo the bolts you missed.
- there is a bolt or two behind the heater core - this one is a ratcheting spanner with flex head, o/e spanner and offset ring spanner job. Undoing it takes a while.
- undo the bolts from the pedal box to the 'roof' (what looks like the roof when you're under there) there are maybe 2 or 3. Ratcheting spanners ftw.
- Then take off the pedal box component.
- it is about at this stage you realize you've also undone the nuts attaching the brake booster.
- disconnect the booster from the master cylinder and remove the booster. leave the master cylinder to bolt onto the other plate. The boosters are actually the same between auto and manual but removing it from the master gives you more space
- You should have a bare plate now.
- undo the steering uni-joint from the spline on the steering column
- while the plate is still there turn it 90 degrees, tilt it off the shaft and through the hole it left in the firewall. Finished.
This was just the way I did it, but I did do this 3 times and it seemed the fastest. You don't need to remove your dash. You don't need any long extensions through your dash. At worst you might need to unclip some AC pipes.
Anyway, feels good to have 3 pedals!
[/img]
Gearbox Mount
So when I removed the gearbox this is what greeted me on the way out;
[/img]
So basically I knocked up a temporary mount to replace it. In hindsight I think the two threads on the mount may have been offset originally as my new one didn't like to fit. Anyway, when I get her driving I'll take her to Berry Motor Group and get the engine mounts and gearbox mount done. I was inspired by Turbobricks hockey puck engine mounts!
8mm mild plate holesaw offcuts I had;
[/img]
Cro-mo bike axle
[/img]
Rubber test tube bung (really firm!) and silicone 2.5" tube to stop too much squish;
[/img]
melted it through;
[/img]
sorted?
[/img]
Gets pretty squished;
[/img]
Now I'm not sure if this is related to my dodgey mount (probably is) but the shifter is really off centre -
[/img]
Does anyone know if
a) - this is going to be a driveability issue due to tailshaft angle
b) - this will be corrected when new mounts are put in or
c) - this is a problem for whoever next removes my shifter boot? Kind-of concerned.
Also I think the gearbox x-member had an alloy spacer between it and the floor on one side (or perhaps I lost the other one and there were two?) I didn't put it back in - can anyone shed any light on this? Perhaps @DCW242 you might have encountered these during your swap?
Everything seems to clear ok anyway;
[/img]
Gear Stick / Overdrive
Original gearstick was munted and so was the knob, so on went the generic weighted SCA unbranded thing;
[/img]
The O/D was wired to the switch on the switch panel to the right. It uses a relay so that it can only get into O/D when it is in 4th.
Coil packs and Plug wires
As you can see here I put the LS1 coils in...
[/img]
And made up custom plug wires.
Something I'm loosing sleep over is that I used a common ground for the coils - does anyone who has experience with this sort of thing know if this will be likely to cause problems in future?
Also wired Battery +ve straight to starter then will run everything from there...hopefully that works ok.
[/img]
Vacuum fittings on Intake Manifold;
[/img]
Oil return
This is how to do it if you are in a hurry. Probably the dodgiest part of this car, but I will drill/tap the block or tig one in eventually...if this one fails! In fact is this even the correct place to put a return?
Collect your implements of mass destruction:
[/img]
Centre punch where you want it, use your biggest drill bit to make a shallow hole in the wall. Whatever you do don't drill through as you'll get shavings in there,
[/img]
Widen it...
[/img]
Spot weld
[/img]
In spot welding I guess you have a good to fair chance of your engine crank case becoming like one of those oil wells in the US where they accidentally caught them on fire in the 20s and still can't get them to go out and they just burn underground for ever. In truth I was relying on my PCV to be so blocked that it wouldn't let in any air to fuel the fire. I did drain the oil first...this was a topic of some discussion though.
fill it in with epoxy rated for temps -
[/img]
Oil feed was simple, just took it from below the water pump on the block and ran it to an elbow , 1/4npt in the block to -4an. On a side note, I didn't even get the braided stuff and it cost like $200 for the parts from a hydraulics shop...pricey as!
Exhaust Manifold Saga
So as you know I was going to use a turbo exhaust manifold I bought from Mark a while ago with an up pipe. I had milled it flat and so on but then found it to be cracked all over the back. Pretty weak. Anyway prior to replacing it I had made this up pipe:
[/img]
And the turbo sat like this:
[/img]
[/img]
[/img]
But then my good mate got fed up with my dodgeyness and made the executive decision to purchase this guy;
[/img]
[/img]
[/img]
[/img]
Made pretty well - tigged up stainless with 1/2" flanges. It wont need any ceramic coating, I'll probably just wrap it in header wrap. It will flow 10x as well as my up pipe and a huge amount better than a stock turbo manifold. It really was the best option of the lot, short of buying a custom manifold.
People will say you can get one made up for 1k...maybe for your sr20 or 2j that they have the jig there for but for a b230 try 2k and a 4 week wait time if you can even find a bloke to do it.
It does raise a few issues though;
I need to bend my radiator hose like this;
[/img]
otherwise it will get really hot.
Alternator Relocation.
So my alternator will probably get pretty warm too - I'll probably just run it till it breaks but has anyone run theirs on the LHS of the motor? in place of AC? The long term plan is to have a 120A alternater and run an Astra PS pump that is electric and a thermatic fan so I will have no PS pump or AC compressor or fan. But in the meantime, a relocation may help?
Manifold Grafting
Need a huge favour - anyone know the overall width of the stock b230 intake runners, and the distance between them? The reason is more for benchracing than anything else but I came across this on the miata forums - the guys who are turbocharging their miatas have poor flowing intake manifolds for turbo applications like us - one smart fellow found that Honda intake manifolds (for which there is a huge and cheap aftermarket) have very similar runner spacing to those of miatas. Cut them both, weld Honda plenum to miata flange and you have a manifold that flows exponentially better for like $200, rather than $1000 for a custom manifold.
[/img]
Apparently he recorded hugely better torque figures on the dyno afterwards.
Oh and we put a boost gauge in for lols - It is off some specialty machine and is worth more than my whole car but will do the trick untill I pick up some VDO stuff.
[/img]
What still needs to be done:
- turbo dump pipe
- MS wiring
- MS tuning
- Radiator hose
Also I was going to buy a Wideband 02 sensor a few weeks back but instead I got a pretty picture of the 240 taken, and it cost basically the same amount as an 02 sensor so ... 3km/hr can be pricey.
[/img]
Cheers!
Sam
P.S. If anyone has a 240 rubber shift boot they would sell me for less than IPD Shipping that would be awesome :)
This is the sixth installment in my build thread. Unfortunately this is where progress stalls for the next few weeks as I have relocated to Melbourne to continue uni for this semester without the car.
This will be as much a 'ask for advice'/'bench-racing' post as a build update so any input would be super helpful.
Pedal box
This was not a really fun job, but not half as bad as people make it out to be. I would probably budget a day to remove and install one properly.
There are a few ways to skin this cat but contrary to popular belief, the newer 'pedal box firewall plates' are not all drilled/fabricated for both auto and manual pedals - Volvo seemed to follow no specific logic when doing this as it is roughly 50/50 all through the years apparently - but lucky for you if your auto plate has the clutch hole!
Mine didn't and so the easiest way to do this is; (I was busy, didn't take pics, sorry)
- disconnect throttle cable
- remove drivers seat
- position yourself on your back with a torch
- undo all the bolts and nuts holding the plate onto the firewall.
- remove the sound deadening and undo the bolts you missed.
- there is a bolt or two behind the heater core - this one is a ratcheting spanner with flex head, o/e spanner and offset ring spanner job. Undoing it takes a while.
- undo the bolts from the pedal box to the 'roof' (what looks like the roof when you're under there) there are maybe 2 or 3. Ratcheting spanners ftw.
- Then take off the pedal box component.
- it is about at this stage you realize you've also undone the nuts attaching the brake booster.
- disconnect the booster from the master cylinder and remove the booster. leave the master cylinder to bolt onto the other plate. The boosters are actually the same between auto and manual but removing it from the master gives you more space
- You should have a bare plate now.
- undo the steering uni-joint from the spline on the steering column
- while the plate is still there turn it 90 degrees, tilt it off the shaft and through the hole it left in the firewall. Finished.
This was just the way I did it, but I did do this 3 times and it seemed the fastest. You don't need to remove your dash. You don't need any long extensions through your dash. At worst you might need to unclip some AC pipes.
Anyway, feels good to have 3 pedals!
[/img]Gearbox Mount
So when I removed the gearbox this is what greeted me on the way out;
[/img]So basically I knocked up a temporary mount to replace it. In hindsight I think the two threads on the mount may have been offset originally as my new one didn't like to fit. Anyway, when I get her driving I'll take her to Berry Motor Group and get the engine mounts and gearbox mount done. I was inspired by Turbobricks hockey puck engine mounts!
8mm mild plate holesaw offcuts I had;
[/img]Cro-mo bike axle
[/img]Rubber test tube bung (really firm!) and silicone 2.5" tube to stop too much squish;
[/img]melted it through;
[/img]sorted?
[/img]Gets pretty squished;
[/img]Now I'm not sure if this is related to my dodgey mount (probably is) but the shifter is really off centre -
[/img]Does anyone know if
a) - this is going to be a driveability issue due to tailshaft angle
b) - this will be corrected when new mounts are put in or
c) - this is a problem for whoever next removes my shifter boot? Kind-of concerned.
Also I think the gearbox x-member had an alloy spacer between it and the floor on one side (or perhaps I lost the other one and there were two?) I didn't put it back in - can anyone shed any light on this? Perhaps @DCW242 you might have encountered these during your swap?
Everything seems to clear ok anyway;
[/img]Gear Stick / Overdrive
Original gearstick was munted and so was the knob, so on went the generic weighted SCA unbranded thing;
[/img]The O/D was wired to the switch on the switch panel to the right. It uses a relay so that it can only get into O/D when it is in 4th.
Coil packs and Plug wires
As you can see here I put the LS1 coils in...
[/img]And made up custom plug wires.
Something I'm loosing sleep over is that I used a common ground for the coils - does anyone who has experience with this sort of thing know if this will be likely to cause problems in future?
Also wired Battery +ve straight to starter then will run everything from there...hopefully that works ok.
[/img]Vacuum fittings on Intake Manifold;
[/img]Oil return
This is how to do it if you are in a hurry. Probably the dodgiest part of this car, but I will drill/tap the block or tig one in eventually...if this one fails! In fact is this even the correct place to put a return?
Collect your implements of mass destruction:
[/img]Centre punch where you want it, use your biggest drill bit to make a shallow hole in the wall. Whatever you do don't drill through as you'll get shavings in there,
[/img]Widen it...
[/img]Spot weld
[/img]In spot welding I guess you have a good to fair chance of your engine crank case becoming like one of those oil wells in the US where they accidentally caught them on fire in the 20s and still can't get them to go out and they just burn underground for ever. In truth I was relying on my PCV to be so blocked that it wouldn't let in any air to fuel the fire. I did drain the oil first...this was a topic of some discussion though.
fill it in with epoxy rated for temps -
[/img]Oil feed was simple, just took it from below the water pump on the block and ran it to an elbow , 1/4npt in the block to -4an. On a side note, I didn't even get the braided stuff and it cost like $200 for the parts from a hydraulics shop...pricey as!
Exhaust Manifold Saga
So as you know I was going to use a turbo exhaust manifold I bought from Mark a while ago with an up pipe. I had milled it flat and so on but then found it to be cracked all over the back. Pretty weak. Anyway prior to replacing it I had made this up pipe:
[/img]And the turbo sat like this:
[/img][/img][/img]But then my good mate got fed up with my dodgeyness and made the executive decision to purchase this guy;
[/img][/img][/img][/img]Made pretty well - tigged up stainless with 1/2" flanges. It wont need any ceramic coating, I'll probably just wrap it in header wrap. It will flow 10x as well as my up pipe and a huge amount better than a stock turbo manifold. It really was the best option of the lot, short of buying a custom manifold.
People will say you can get one made up for 1k...maybe for your sr20 or 2j that they have the jig there for but for a b230 try 2k and a 4 week wait time if you can even find a bloke to do it.
It does raise a few issues though;
I need to bend my radiator hose like this;
[/img]otherwise it will get really hot.
Alternator Relocation.
So my alternator will probably get pretty warm too - I'll probably just run it till it breaks but has anyone run theirs on the LHS of the motor? in place of AC? The long term plan is to have a 120A alternater and run an Astra PS pump that is electric and a thermatic fan so I will have no PS pump or AC compressor or fan. But in the meantime, a relocation may help?
Manifold Grafting
Need a huge favour - anyone know the overall width of the stock b230 intake runners, and the distance between them? The reason is more for benchracing than anything else but I came across this on the miata forums - the guys who are turbocharging their miatas have poor flowing intake manifolds for turbo applications like us - one smart fellow found that Honda intake manifolds (for which there is a huge and cheap aftermarket) have very similar runner spacing to those of miatas. Cut them both, weld Honda plenum to miata flange and you have a manifold that flows exponentially better for like $200, rather than $1000 for a custom manifold.
[/img]Apparently he recorded hugely better torque figures on the dyno afterwards.
Oh and we put a boost gauge in for lols - It is off some specialty machine and is worth more than my whole car but will do the trick untill I pick up some VDO stuff.
[/img]What still needs to be done:
- turbo dump pipe
- MS wiring
- MS tuning
- Radiator hose
Also I was going to buy a Wideband 02 sensor a few weeks back but instead I got a pretty picture of the 240 taken, and it cost basically the same amount as an 02 sensor so ... 3km/hr can be pricey.
[/img]Cheers!
Sam
P.S. If anyone has a 240 rubber shift boot they would sell me for less than IPD Shipping that would be awesome :)
Hey man,
Loving the build! I'll definitely be following this thread. Keep up the good work!
Loving the build! I'll definitely be following this thread. Keep up the good work!
Is that turbo manifold from eBay for cheap? Have they started making them with the flange up the right way?
Doesn't look like there is much room for a dump pipe with that exhaust manifold.
How big a dump are you planning on running?
How big a dump are you planning on running?
Hey cheers @elijahlaz much appreciated!
And@GingerNinja I don't know the exact one he bought but pretty sure it was $200-400. And hopefully! I'll let you know when it doesn't fit haha! How do you tell?
@Turbo510 I'm planning on trying to use some of the 2.5" mild tube that I have but it is really tight you are correct. Hopefully in future I can go to 3" stainless but at the moment the radius of the bends will be the limiting factor.
Cheers,
Sam
And
Cheers,
Sam
- Edited
The cheap ebay ones don't have supports and they do melt and bend with the turbo weight. Now you just need a decent turbo for it, not a little t25! But compared to @yld244 s manifold, its a bit wider than where his sits.
You can use a cut down 740 alternator bracket too on the rhs I guess But others haven't moved thiers, just need good heat shielding. Why do you need a 120a alternator!?
Yoshifab do a intake kit for not much already wit the sheet aluminium the right shape for a b23 manifold iirc. But the stock intake isn't the issue for you until the head runs larger valves and decent porting!
You can use a cut down 740 alternator bracket too on the rhs I guess But others haven't moved thiers, just need good heat shielding. Why do you need a 120a alternator!?
Yoshifab do a intake kit for not much already wit the sheet aluminium the right shape for a b23 manifold iirc. But the stock intake isn't the issue for you until the head runs larger valves and decent porting!
I didn't have to do any of that when ive converted 240s to manual... Unbolt pedal box, bolt in new one and drill hole from the outside....
4 days later
Yeah @Vee_Que I could've drilled a hole with a stepper bit but that was a bit ghetto for me.
I might weld on some supporting rods if I go to a larger turbo but the T25 is so light it won't really matter. Although I guess the higher back pressure will mean more heat in the manifold.
I think the 740 alternator bracket will be the way to go! I need 120 amps as the Astra PS pump draws a lot of current at full lock as well as having the option for other fun things like electric water pumps and thermo fans will be handy.
True about the head...that will be the next project after this part is finished.
In other news, I bought a bunch of VDO gauges. Has anyone holesawed these plastic bits? I have 5 gauges and I've been pinching the plastic blanks every time I see a 240 at the wreckers. But I still don't have enough!
[/img]
I might weld on some supporting rods if I go to a larger turbo but the T25 is so light it won't really matter. Although I guess the higher back pressure will mean more heat in the manifold.
I think the 740 alternator bracket will be the way to go! I need 120 amps as the Astra PS pump draws a lot of current at full lock as well as having the option for other fun things like electric water pumps and thermo fans will be handy.
True about the head...that will be the next project after this part is finished.
In other news, I bought a bunch of VDO gauges. Has anyone holesawed these plastic bits? I have 5 gauges and I've been pinching the plastic blanks every time I see a 240 at the wreckers. But I still don't have enough!
[/img]Also looking into turbo options.
My current set up is as you know a 15t Saab unit (GT2531) made by Garrett on a T3 manifold with an adapter. I'm confident that this turbo is good for 200hp on my setup and will spool quite early. My only concern is that it will pose a large restriction on the exhaust => higher cylinder temps => worse fuel economy => prone to knock. As well as the fact that it will be at the limit of its' efficiency here and blowing hot air at this time - not exactly what I want at 6k revs and 10:1 cr.
Keeping in mind that I am a) 8v with 531 and A cam, b) looking for 300hp and c) not looking to spend $1500 on the latest gtx3076r...
At the moment I'm looking at the following options;
1: Run my friends' t3 18t off his V70r and see how that goes. (free)
2: Buy a t3 or t4 garrett CHRA, rebuild and run a t3 rear and t4 front. Could be done pretty cheap but could get complicated. ($500)
3: Buy a Holset Hx/y 35 and make do with adapting flanges and twinscroll turbine housing on undivided mani ($250-$600)
4: Buy an old xr6t gt3540 and bolt that on ($500)
5: Buy a disco potato off an sr20
6: Buy a 11cm^2 rear housing for my HX52 and a quickspool valve and modify the t3 manifold for a ext wastegate and use a t3 => t4 adaptor
My current set up is as you know a 15t Saab unit (GT2531) made by Garrett on a T3 manifold with an adapter. I'm confident that this turbo is good for 200hp on my setup and will spool quite early. My only concern is that it will pose a large restriction on the exhaust => higher cylinder temps => worse fuel economy => prone to knock. As well as the fact that it will be at the limit of its' efficiency here and blowing hot air at this time - not exactly what I want at 6k revs and 10:1 cr.
Keeping in mind that I am a) 8v with 531 and A cam, b) looking for 300hp and c) not looking to spend $1500 on the latest gtx3076r...
At the moment I'm looking at the following options;
1: Run my friends' t3 18t off his V70r and see how that goes. (free)
2: Buy a t3 or t4 garrett CHRA, rebuild and run a t3 rear and t4 front. Could be done pretty cheap but could get complicated. ($500)
3: Buy a Holset Hx/y 35 and make do with adapting flanges and twinscroll turbine housing on undivided mani ($250-$600)
4: Buy an old xr6t gt3540 and bolt that on ($500)
5: Buy a disco potato off an sr20
6: Buy a 11cm^2 rear housing for my HX52 and a quickspool valve and modify the t3 manifold for a ext wastegate and use a t3 => t4 adaptor
Xr6t turbo needs a smaller exhaust housing to work on your motor right. Can go external gate However! But they go for a bit more than 500 rebuilt.. But worth it!
T3/4 with Chinese core is viable and will spool pretty early. find an ok garret t3 core and get it all balanced and you get better flow and water and oil cooling in the core. But otherwise you need to balance the chinabay turbo.
Td04 18t would get you there too. But not be as impressive...
T3/4 with Chinese core is viable and will spool pretty early. find an ok garret t3 core and get it all balanced and you get better flow and water and oil cooling in the core. But otherwise you need to balance the chinabay turbo.
Td04 18t would get you there too. But not be as impressive...
It's not much but it's progress.
[/img]
Now to do 3 more!
[/img]
Wideband came.
Also, you're right @Vee_Que the Xr6 t would need a smaller housing, and a rebuild if I bought it second hand - so once you add the cost of a rebuild kit, balance and turbine housing to the $5-700 2nd hand purchase price, alot of better suited turbos come cheaper.
That rules out option 4...option 6 is abit unrealistic...option 5 will be too small apperently so I am left with the following:
1: Run my friends' t3 18t off his V70r and see how that goes. (free)
2: Buy a t3 or t4 garrett CHRA, rebuild and run a t3 rear and t4 front. Could be done pretty cheap but could get complicated. ($500)
3: Buy a Holset Hx/y 35 and make do with adapting flanges and twinscroll turbine housing on undivided mani ($250-$600)
Interestingly there is this HX35 on gumtree:
gumtree.com.au/s-ad/eden-hill/engine-engine-parts-transmission/holset-hx35-wh1c-turbo-t3-70-single-scroll-housing/1085764990
Would be awesome but shipping will be expensive from WA and he is firm on that price...abit too much to ask IMHO so I may wait until another comes up locally.
Also considering a gt3071/generic gt30 series as that style seems well suited and streetable on the b230.
[/img]Now to do 3 more!
[/img]Wideband came.
Also, you're right @Vee_Que the Xr6 t would need a smaller housing, and a rebuild if I bought it second hand - so once you add the cost of a rebuild kit, balance and turbine housing to the $5-700 2nd hand purchase price, alot of better suited turbos come cheaper.
That rules out option 4...option 6 is abit unrealistic...option 5 will be too small apperently so I am left with the following:
1: Run my friends' t3 18t off his V70r and see how that goes. (free)
2: Buy a t3 or t4 garrett CHRA, rebuild and run a t3 rear and t4 front. Could be done pretty cheap but could get complicated. ($500)
3: Buy a Holset Hx/y 35 and make do with adapting flanges and twinscroll turbine housing on undivided mani ($250-$600)
Interestingly there is this HX35 on gumtree:
gumtree.com.au/s-ad/eden-hill/engine-engine-parts-transmission/holset-hx35-wh1c-turbo-t3-70-single-scroll-housing/1085764990
Would be awesome but shipping will be expensive from WA and he is firm on that price...abit too much to ask IMHO so I may wait until another comes up locally.
Also considering a gt3071/generic gt30 series as that style seems well suited and streetable on the b230.
- Edited
Yld drives pretty perfect with a gt35r on it though. With a. 68 rear housing. If you want to do it with me. I think we can do a t3/4 cheaper and it will spool well. With an external gate given your manifold. But any of these options will stress your high comp motor imo, besides the 18t.