Anthony_Demol58
Hi everyone,
I have just signed up to this forum after reading some of the interesting posts, mainly about 164's.
I just thought some of you might be interested in the mods I have made to our 1974 164 TE. We have owned it for nearly 8 years, second owners. It was originally an auto and I was determined to convert it to manual. I have converted numerous 240's to manual and its pretty straight forward. The 164 would be another story.
One good thing about the 164 though is that you do not need a manual pedal set because there is provision for a clutch pedal in the auto pedal set. You just have to fabricate a pedal. I used a pedal off a 240, then used the original brake pedal with cut down sides.
My plan was to use an M46 box, which i already had, rather than the M410, which are hard to get and very expensive. The problem was the bellhousing, which I ended up making myself. Front section of the original auto bellhousing, mated to the rear section of a M46 bellhousing. Pretty tricky, but it worked. Then weld on provision for the hydraulic clutch slave cylinder. I managed to get a flywheel and clutch pressure plate from Gerry Lister. Next problem was the different splines used on the original clutch compared to the M46, which are finer. Solution was using a clutch from a 240 Turbo, sold by either IPD or FCP Groton. These are 10mm bigger than the original 240 ones but 10mm smaller than the 164 clutch. They are just big to work with the 164 pressure plate though. So everything came together fine and it worked great, till I started having trouble with overdrive slip. My next plan was to use an M47 5 speed box, which I had just acquired and rebuilt. These are OK boxes but are aluminium which I don't like. Too much expansion when they get hot so its hard to set up the taper roller bearings properly. They also have a very low 1st gear. They also don't have a speedo connection.
The solution to that is from a guy in Holland, Huke Basart, who supplies an electronic setup. Basically, you have a ring with little magnets that is fixed to the driveshaft. A sensor picks up the signals, sends it to an electronic box, which sends the right voltage to an electric motor which connects to your speedo cable. You can calibrate the speedo with an adjustment screw on the electronic box. Cost was around $300, and it works fantastic. BTW, Huke Basart also supplies Bellhousings for the M45/46 conversion for B30's and B20's.
So now I have the 5 speed and its great, though my next ambition is to modify the diff to 1:3.31 ratio, reason being that 1st is very low and 5th is a little lower than overdrive on the M46.
Other mods on the car have been an LPG conversion, A more up to date thermofan (very much recommended, makes it much more free revving) and a straight through 2.5" exhaust. Chucked the rear muffler and replaced it with a large volume straight through unit from a new model falcon. Really makes a difference, The car has more power all round is smoother and feeer revving. I have also recently bought an electronic ignition system from a 1975 US model (didn't come out here) which I still have to build in.
Another recent mod has been getting rid of the rubberised steering idler arm. I don't know about you guys but I just kept wearing them out and the steering ended up feeling like jelly. So I made up hard steel bushes, one pressed into the idler arm, well greased, and it is fantastic! Improves steering heaps, more direct, and no extra jarring or anything (I thought that might be a problem)
Alloys from a 760 GLE, the spoke type ones, have also been added. They look really good.
Thats about it. Will be re-trimming the interior soon.
Sorry its all a bit long winded, but thought it might be of interest.
Love your supercharged 164 @Rob.
I wouldn't mind replacing the big bumpers with 73 model ones. Its the only downside of the 74 model. Though opinions vary on that.
If you are interested I will post some photos of bellhousing and electronic speedo. Let me know.
Rob
Thanks Anton
Welcome..
I for one am interested in seeing any photos you have of the car or any of your work.
also, If you are after some '73 bumpers let me know, I have spares.
jamesinc
OldnDecrepit
Welcome Anton, we look forward to those pictures.
Anthony_Demol58
Getting photos together, will post soon.
BTW, I had to modify the ring on the driveshaft housing the little magnets for the electronic speedo. Not enough adjustment in the electronic box to get the right speed, made for cars with short diff ratio's. So I made a new ring with an extra magnet, more impulses per rotation, worked perfect. I think Huke now supplies them with more magnets.
Anthony_Demol58
OldnDecrepit
Excellent work.
Love the colour!
Talk to Rob about a supercharger for that beast!
jamesinc
zzdhalla
You all inspire me..... nice to see more manuals with 5 speeds...
Ex850R
Very nice car and good job on the hacksaw!
Anthony_Demol58
Yes the hacksaw looks a bit rough but after very carefully hacksawing I used a height gauge on a flat table to get it dead flat. But the hacksawing was pretty close :)
Rob, apart from the obvious benefits of supercharging what are the downsides. More fuel usage? I just managed 1 in 9 on LPG on a trip to Tweed Heads. That was being pretty loaded up too. Have just installed electronic ignition from a 1975 USA model. Really good, a bit more grunt down low I would say, pulls up the hills really well.
Re supercharging, how much work is it and cost. I suppose you need an intercooler, actually I have one from a 740 turbo. What are the benefits of supercharging as compared to turbocharging? I have all the gear needed for turbocharging it but there is just no room down there. I've seen LH drives done but they don't have the steering column and steering box to worry about. What about reducing compression, can you still run the same compression because LPG has a much higher octane rating?
Another thing, I have some rather bad ticking going on in the engine, it doesn't use oil has good compression last I checked and has 330000 km's on original engine. Could it be the timing gears? I have checked and adjusted the tappets so its not that. Its more of a tick than a knock. A knock would indicate big ends or mains I believe.
Appreciate any feedback.
P1800 on photo has been sold. Sad day. Great car.
egads
Steel timing gear?
Rob
lots of pro's and con's to supercharging. I will write you a story when I have a little more time.
Engine ticking that cant be adjusted out is most likely a camshaft on its way out. Especially with 330 on it.
Anthony_Demol58
Thanks Rob, what about noisy cam followers (lifters). Can they get worn or the bore they work in get worn so that it produces ticking?
I will check the cam some time, but its a big job getting it out. I suppose at the same time the timing gears can be checked.
Anthony_Demol58
Could the ticking be oil pump?
Rob
The biggest problem is that you cannot pull the lifters out without removing the cylinder head on a B30. It means a cam change is quite a large job. Not saying it couldn't be an oil pump but I have not seen an oil pump failure myself. Have certainly seen camshaft failures
egads
Can oil pump be tested with a drill in situ?
Major Ledfoot
egads;45920 wroteSteel timing gear?
They're (plural) standard OE fitment on B30 engines and Penta gear (and should've been standard on road-going B20s).
Nice work by the OP on the bellhousing. And after what the OP mentioned about adding a clutch pedal, I'm very glad now that I saved that pedal box from the 164. :-)
Rob
@bgpzfm142 Steel gears are certainly not OE on B30's.
I have many B30's here and none have steel gears. The 2 sets of steel gears I have are Penta parts.
Vee_Que
+1 on the camshaft worn. Common on all cars of that era if still the original motor.