Turbo control valve

nut3y · 2021-03-10T05:30:10+00:00

Use the Pierburg one from Volvo or elsewhere , no , P1 car ones are not at all useable.

nut3y

Nvm, haltech claims that their BCS isn't sensitive to polarity, looks identical to the MAC. Didn't even bother to slap a sticker on it like IPD.

hamsandwich

Didn't see until now, polarity don't matter.

nut3y

Car's doing the same thing, jumps to 15psi then gets stuck at 10 psi with lots of noise but no power almost as if someone is applying the brakes mid-pull. Tried different fuel, ignition and tcv pilot maps, looked at the logs nothing out of the ordinary except air mass is significantly lower, before it was 710, now it doesn't seem to want to go over 400 even during 16 psi spikes. TCV is getting a signal. Does the same thing thing with no line to the waste gate (i.e closed), even at higher pressures. Might switch back to the MBC had better luck with that but it only seems to cover up the underlying issue. Starting to give up hope on getting any proper boost control working on this car. Not sure if it's a failing fuel pump, bad MAF, bad waste gate, seriously don't know anymore.

Edit: Car starts and idles fine too with normal fuel trims. Upper intercooler hose is pretty squishy too, but shouldn't affect anything when under boost pressures.

hamsandwich

What bin are you running?

The later available m4.4 revisions out there will flash the MIL light when it pulls timing past a certain threshold, are you sure it's not pulling a bunch of timing?

If you have another maf to try would be good, but you could also look at the logged maf voltage and maf readings to see if it's playing up a bit.

The original rubber boost hoses can be problems, can hide cracks or holes until boost is built, but a major boost leak would also show up with erratic fuel trims in the logs.

Torn cbv diaphragm can leak boost.

Too much plug gap can cause problems.

I have also had problems with bin files, which were fixed by loading up a fresh, unedited bin and starting tuning again.

I took me ages and tons of logging to get smooth boost and load with tunerpro, and hours of looking thru logs.

I don't know man, I just chucking ideas out there based on the time I spent tuning m4.4, but if you want to send me a logged drive where it plays up and I'll have a look thru it if it helps? Won't be home till tomorrow night anyways.

The fact that it won't build boost with wastegate disconnected makes me think cbv or piping is leaking? A 15g should build 18psi then taper off as it runs out of puff pretty easily

Jamest5r_

What pipe are you using from the air filter to turbo? As you are in the long shot range atm I have seen in the past these pipes compressed/collapse under load but look totally normal when you are looking at them at idle, worth a go ?

nut3y

Air filter to turbo is that hard plastic type, misread your question, sorry.

Car has a rip kit from factory so the one at the top from the metal charge pipe to the intercooler, it's the only rubber hose in the system, the others are made of hard plastic (exception of the tiny joiner above the turbo that's silicone and looks fine off the car). I'm pretty sure it's the original pipe, very squishy.

Has fresh FR6DC plugs that are correctly gapped but they might be too cold?

It has a new CBV diaphragm and spring from kinugawa.

I've tried three times with fresh BIN files. It has some minor timing pull from 3000-4000rpm only about 3-6deg, does the same with the MBC but doesn't really affect the power. Oddly though I can't seem to get rid of this knocking, tried pulling 4 deg and running it way richer than stock on one occasion and it still knocks under stock pressures.

MAF readings don't look erratic, just lower than before.

It was building boost with the wastegate disconnected, too much for my liking had to lift, didn't want to blow anything up.

Car has had pretty much a full stage 0 at this point. I can list what's been replaced if that helps anyone, might have overlooked something.

Also the fuel consumption is quite good, around 8L/100km.

hamsandwich

Pulling 6 degrees is not to bad, over 15 degrees before it flashes the mil I think it was.

Only way I could get rid of alot of the timing pull at 17ish psi was to re time the cams, I had previously pulled timing thru out the ignition map, and added fuel in areas, I run closed loop wideband tho so the afrs are normally very close to where my map is set.

Plugs I'm sure I run the same but 7dc not the 6's.

Are you on the 607/608 rev5a bins?

If you have tried fresh bin files that rules out a stuff up in a cell or 2 causing problems.

I think the answer could still be in the logs, I have several different ADX files set up with different graphs and history tables to review logs.

Are you running a boost sensor or using the std or add on boost gauge?

What is you tcv duty cycle and load doing when it hits the wall?

nut3y

I'm using the 607 rev5b file from the M44 wikia page as the base tune.

I have both the standard boost gauge and an aftermarket 20 psi gauge both hooked up. No boost pressure sensor.

Looking at the charts for TCV duty cycle, it's no where near the map that I flashed, not even close to stock. There's quite a gap between history average and most recent sample too.

{"embed-external":{"data":{"url":"https:\/\/cdn.ozvolvo.org\/uploads\/018\/Z7U5BZ1RE94E.png","name":"stock pilot.PNG","type":"image\/png","size":27675,"width":null,"height":null,"mediaID":18367,"dateInserted":"2021-03-18T13:49:01+00:00","insertUserID":3139,"foreignType":"embed","foreignID":3139,"embedType":"file","format":null,"bodyRaw":null},"loaderData":{"type":"file","file":[],"progressEventEmitter":{"listeners":[null]}}}}

Stock TCV pilot map

{"embed-external":{"data":{"url":"https:\/\/cdn.ozvolvo.org\/uploads\/251\/4ABQSTF2BAAW.png","name":"tcv duty most recent.PNG","type":"image\/png","size":23336,"width":null,"height":null,"mediaID":18369,"dateInserted":"2021-03-18T13:49:01+00:00","insertUserID":3139,"foreignType":"embed","foreignID":3139,"embedType":"file","format":null,"bodyRaw":null},"loaderData":{"type":"file","file":[],"progressEventEmitter":{"listeners":[null]}}}}

Logging most recent sample

{"embed-external":{"data":{"url":"https:\/\/cdn.ozvolvo.org\/uploads\/450\/UVIZDWJLUQXC.png","name":"tcv pilot.PNG","type":"image\/png","size":36798,"width":null,"height":null,"mediaID":18370,"dateInserted":"2021-03-18T13:49:01+00:00","insertUserID":3139,"foreignType":"embed","foreignID":3139,"embedType":"file","format":null,"bodyRaw":null},"loaderData":{"type":"file","file":[],"progressEventEmitter":{"listeners":[null]}}}}

Current TCV pilot map

{"embed-external":{"data":{"url":"https:\/\/cdn.ozvolvo.org\/uploads\/357\/Q3UUOSDVSAUE.png","name":"tcv uty cycle.PNG","type":"image\/png","size":26239,"width":null,"height":null,"mediaID":18368,"dateInserted":"2021-03-18T13:49:01+00:00","insertUserID":3139,"foreignType":"embed","foreignID":3139,"embedType":"file","format":null,"bodyRaw":null},"loaderData":{"type":"file","file":[],"progressEventEmitter":{"listeners":[null]}}}}

Logging History Average

hamsandwich

The tcv duty will do what it has to do to meet target load, unless you are using the P part modded bin then it will only follow duty cycle.

Have you edited the target load setpoint to match any changes to the tcv duty?

hamsandwich

Your current tcv duty cycle map looks a bit funny too. At low load, low rpm it has really low duty cycles, this is where it's trying to build boost, so normally has higher duty's. Then the whole P part logic takes over and references a bunch of tables to mess with it all and cause spikes.

Load is the most important part, getting stable load figures then tuning the tcv tables to suit that load closely greatly improves erratic boost, also you can lower how much the P part can influence the duty cycles

nut3y

Target Load is stock so probably explains it, i gathered that it was unnecessary to change but obviously that isn't the case. The pilot control map is from the 18psi map on the wiki with the upper values reduced a bit. The same one that the creator said not to use as it was garbage, but I decided to cut corners and tried to use something that was already partially done so i could make a few minor adjustments, save me from pulling the ecu and hooking it up to flash after every drive. That BIN has the stock Target load map so I'm guessing he disabled it.

hamsandwich

Ahh that's it man.

The target load map controls boost pressure, you raise the target load to raise the boost. They whole systems does what it has to do to hit the target load.

So the tweaked tcv duty's are being refrenced for the boost control, but if the car is hitting the target load set out in the tables it will drop the duty cycle down by itself, regardless of tcv map setting.

That bin was simplys 18psi one, and it was a P part modded bin, so set to ignore all target load tables and only follow the tcv duty cycle. To do this you need to 0 out all the P part tables.

If you open his 18 psi bin, and use the compare map feature in tunerpro, open up all the P part tabs and hit compare. You will see where he has zeroed out cells to make it ignore the target load map.

Hope that makes some sense, reading that entire 1500+ page thread twice in full before alot of this stuff made sense to me, and I'm still just winging it.

nut3y

Yeah I understand, are there any downsides to ignoring the target load map?

nut3y

Also is boost pressure the only thing that's pulled to hit target load or does the computer also adjust timing and fueling to compensate? I find that even with the MBC the car decides to have no power on occasion. Lifting and then planting the throttle resolves this but the computer is also pulling timing due to knocking so that might be the culprit in that case.

hamsandwich

The load request system is safer as it will keep the max load at whatever the table says. So in summer it may take say 18psi to hit your load target of 9. But in winter with the colder temps it may only take 15psi to hit the target load of 9, either way your safeguard is that it will not exceed its target.

If you use the P part bins, the tune will only run off the tcv duty cycle map, so you have to figure out for your system, say 85% duty cycle equals 18psi on your car, it will always just hit that 18psi, so summer may see that 85% duty cycle give you 18 psi everytime, and hit it's load target of 9, however the denser Air of winter will see the 85% duty cycle still give you the 18 psi, but the load may go much higher like 10.5 or something, and it will knock badly when you least expect it.

The easiest way I found to slowly raise the boost was get a std 607rev5a bin, set it how you want like usual disable checks and stuff, then open your target load setpoint map, select a few cells in the max 75% TPS coloum (so wide open throttle) and add 5% to each load number.

This will increase your load, by 5% for wide open throttle only, so raising your boost at wide open throttle.

Select cells you want to increase, select multiply value, value 1.05 then enter. That will add 5% to the original number.

Load that tune up, see how it goes and if it pulls timing, then keep repeating this process until you hit the power and boost level you want at wide open throttle.

nut3y

Ok seems rather time consuming, might hook up a voltage booster that allows you to tune in-car. So just tune @ WOT? Is it too difficult to street tune certain throttle percentages and rpms?

hamsandwich

It's time consuming, very much so. The other option is to pay for tunes, but where is the fun in that?! My 850 is not a daily, if it was I would have paid for a tune by now.

But with like 8 or 9 revisions you can get your 850 running well on much higher boost and with no timing pull and its all worth it.

nut3y

I went for a pizza run using that TCV map I uploaded, except with the P part map set to 0. Boy did it pull but man did it knock. Even with all that extra fuel and timing pull from the 18psi maps. Blew my intercooler hose off at 19 psi, probably saved my engine. Looking back at the log my injectors hit 99% just before the hose blew so i was probably less than a second from doing some damage. Put the hose back on and it was backfiring for a bit, i'm assuming from all the un-burnt fuel that made it's way into the exhaust while i was limping over to the side of the road with essentially no maf, but in a few seconds it stopped. Cleared a code complaining about something bad in the EFI system and all is well. Overall a very eventful trip to dominos but it's got power now so confirms that it was bad tuning on my part which is GREAT, can't believe I overlooked it. Thank you for pointing it out!

So would you recommend using the stock fuel and ignition maps and modify them if any knocking occurs?

hamsandwich

The stock fuel map is not too bad, the stock ignition map can be edited when you find out where it is pulling timing.

If you are using the P part modded bins then start low with you tcv duty cycle settings, and work higher slowly, or it will boost alot and very quickly, as you just seen!

Good luck with it man it's all good fun

nut3y

I'll stick to using target load maps, seems like the safer option. Thanks again.

« Previous Page Next Page »