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Alex's 360 build thread

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Comments

  • jamesincJames (@jamesinc) Oz Volvo Ice Fortress
    What breaks oil down anyway?
    The main thing that breaks oil down is oxidation. When the oil is hot, oxidation occurs faster. If you heat oil up too much (quite a long way above engine OT) it will experience thermal failure and begin to break down. Even in a healthy engine, this can occur in small areas, like between a piston and cylinder wall, where you get small pockets of high pressure and heat.

    @Vee_Que works in the industry and is of course right about what manufacturers recommend, but they have to consider lots of external factors, like owner habits and maintenance costs, which may affect the perceived cost and reputation of their cars.

    I don't think changing the oil at 5,000km intervals but changing the filter at 10,000km intervals creates a false economy. The filter is still doing its job that entire time, which is to scrub large contaminant particles from the oil.
    ALVO360
  • Vee_QueVee_Que (@Vee_Que) South Eastern suburbs Melbourne.
    A good case for me is the cartridge filters like in my s40 or my Dad's tdi mk5 jetta. I drive my s40 hard, it gets oil changes every 5k/3-4months, the filter used is a ryco usually, it is looking very average when it comes out. My dad's car, gets done once a year despite him towing over the course of the year, and does 10k. He doesn't drive it too hard. The filter on that comes out shrivelled and twisted up, even genuine does. Yes they are both smaller than a z89, but the fact that it would come out twisted from heat damage says more to me about what it's going to be missing when it shrivels up.

    So, save the $15 of a z89 (or buy bulk), but not changing the filter that is heat damaged like the oil that has gone past its operating temp at some point is not going to save the motor.
  • edited June 2018
    It's good of people without qualifications to be writing things like this as fact. The fact that almost no oem recommend oil only changes even on harsh driving situations (which is stop start driving, towing, high speed driving, continuous dusty road driving) which are half normal intervals, tells me more than Slowbrick saying it's a false economy.

    On top of that, you're definitely mixing the old oil washed out with petrol and carbon, with fresh oil which has fresh additives.

    On vehicles with small oil filters, and small sumps,(under 4l) like most Jap cars, not changing the tiny oil filter is the false economy. In a b230 with near 5l capacity and a giant oil filter, it's not so bad. But the oil filter is 10% of the cost of the oil change. So why not just do it and not be lazy and risk recirculating carbon/metal etc through a motor?

    But of course I don't have a link to back up this currently, I only have been a mechanic in various fleets and dealers for 10 years.

    You know qualifications dont mean a pinch of salt right? I've met plenty of "qualified" people who really beg the question of if its a relevant metric. Not having a dig at you but its based on real world experience. No I'm not a mechanic by trade but that doesnt make me "unskilled" like people with qualifications like to say about unqualified people. Secondly do you think that when manufacturers put those recommendations in their books that they are doing it for the best interest of the consumer or for themselves?

    When a consumer buys a car the manufacturer makes a profit on the car and is relying on MORE consumers buying those cars to keep money flowing. So what happens during the period consumers arent buying cars because they already have one? The manufacturer sells them parts that's what happens. Yes its true that any vehicle needs maintenance so that is part and parcel of owning a car. But manufacturers arent here for their consumers, they are here for themselves because that's how business works. The manufacturer will then put "shorter" and more "intensive" maintenance regimes in place to ensure a steady flow of profits from parts that relate to routine maintenance. They convince people that their car needs this maintenance schedule to keep cars in dealers and parts coming off the shelf. Sounds cynical but that is the reality of it. Just remember what Henry Ford said: "I dont care what car you buy, just as long as you buy your parts from me".

    Its not different to any other business model in which the consumer makes an "investment" with a particular brand/service. Its the same way Apple works. You buy a phone and they convince you that you need a new one to maintain the value of your investment which in this case is the "Apple experience" in the form of new updates. Same goes for Netflix. You invest in the sign up costs but to maximise your experience they can offer you a "premium" service to maximise your investment in the form of 4k, more screens etc.

    I used to fit tyres for a living. No I didnt go to school for it nor did I have any qualifications but I considered myself skilled. Anywho before doing that job I used to always abide by the tyre placard on the door when it came to inflation pressures recommended by the manufacturer. It was then explained to me by several senior techs that the placard ratings are intentionally lower to improve the comfort of the vehicle but are also 2-4 psi, depending on the car, too low to accelerate the wear. This would mean that when the car is new and inside its warranty period the dealer then gets one or two guaranteed tyre changes from the customer. Depending on the driving style, increasing the pressure by 2-4 psi could result in the car exceeding the warranty period on its factory delivered tyres resulting in the dealer missing out on the sale.

    Its a similar story with oil filters. Short of running with an exotic, small tolerance engine, most consumer grade cars are fitted with engines that can be maintained cheaply by their owners. Im not talking about cars that see high loads or adverse conditions, for those yes I agree you should change the oil AND filter more often. Im talking about your regular road going car. Have you ever wondered why oil filters from manufacturers cost double their aftermarket value and yet manufacturers put in those instructions to change at EVERY CHANGE? Oil and oil filters are something manufacturers like to use to scare people into thinking its the only thing that can destroy and engine so they use it to make money. I have lost count of how many engines ive seen that has a brand spanking new oil filter on it and an oil change but has a dirty as fuck air filter that still looks original. If the air filter is dirty then the engine is going to be sucking in dirt as it breaks away from the filth and contaminating the oil, yet why dont they get changed anywhere near as often? When was the last time you saw a TV promoting the change of air filters? I always see TV ads about how oil can save fuel and engines but a dirty air filter causes high fuel consumption AND dirty oil from poor running.

    Sorry about the long post and im not having an argument but people need to make their own observations and make their own decisions. Just because everyone else does it doesnt mean its the correct thing to do. Theres nothing wrong with listening to "qualified" people but at the same time qualified people do like doing things by the book and the book isnt always right, nor does the book always tell you its motives for what its saying.

    If I went by the book I would be replacing spark plugs in my B23ET with ONLY VOLVO and at every 40k. However what really happens is I change them every 20k and with NGK plugs because that is what is best for that particular motor with its usage. They dont last 40k. Maybe in 1984 with its intended use they might have lasted that long but not in 2018 with how it gets driven. The same goes for my Rodeo. It calls for the oil filter and oil to be changed every 10k. Its an older motor but being on gas it keeps the oil cleaner for longer. I do tow with it and is in stop start traffic everyday so I change it every 5k and the filter at 10k. I cut the filter open at 5k and it was fine even though the oil was dirtied from the stop start/towing. I changed it at 10k and it was dirty but not disgusting, basically it was just right. Make your own observations and adjust to your usage. Use the manufacturers guidelines as exactly that, guidelines.

    Anywho its all relative to each individual motor and the owners use. It however is not fair to tell people their opinion/view is lesser because they are "unqualified".
  • Vee_QueVee_Que (@Vee_Que) South Eastern suburbs Melbourne.
    Yep. Gigantic wall of text. You're right. You are very cynical, manufacturers care about vehicles lasting.

    The argument is not about the spark plugs, I change mine every 10k, not a stock motor either, an LPG car isn't as relevant to this discussion either, but I'd be changing the $20 filter anyway because I'm not a tightarse.
    timboheavy_dd
  • Melbo - 360
    Had a really nice drive down to Melbourne. Those adjustable coil-over shocks In the back are worth their weight...
    Sa4fCoah.jpg
    bowiecarnut222egadsRaebirdVee_Quepaul0075bgpzfm142pieboyfresh
  • Made my way down to Philip Island today
    LVAEwych.jpg
    carnut222Vee_Quenugget_940Raebirdpaul0075
  • Shout out to Julian at Voldat. Cheers for the injectorooney
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    carnut222jamesincnugget_940egadsRaebirdVee_QueGhettobirdpaul0075
  • jamesincJames (@jamesinc) Oz Volvo Ice Fortress
    That's @Ghettobird
    ALVO360egadsGhettobird
  • GhettobirdJulian (@Ghettobird) Melbourne - SE Suburbs
    No worries :)
    Cant wait to see the 360 with some boost shoved down its neck!
    egadsALVO360
  • I continue to be glad that this great 360 ended up with someone who loves it and is doing it justice
    RaebirdALVO360Vee_QueGhettobirdbgpzfm142
  • edited July 2018
    For anyone who is curious on how progress is going:
    Ordered new piston rings and bearings from precision international -- these guys are great. They've been able to get everything I needed at a pretty good price. Will be rebuilding the b230ET in the coming weeks.

    Major delays with ordering from classicswede.uk
    I've been waitng a long long long time to get them to process my order. After dozens of attempts to get it sorted, I'm starting to lose faith.

    I aim to have the engine ready within a month or so...
    Vee_QueRaebird
  • What manufacturer were the rings and bearings?
  • Rings are: Hastings
    Bearings: glyco
  • RaebirdRaebird (@Raebird) Springfield Lakes, Qld.
    For anyone who is curious on how progress is going:
    Ordered new piston rings and bearings from precision international -- these guys are great. They've been able to get everything I needed at a pretty good price. Will be rebuilding the b230ET in the coming weeks.

    Major delays with ordering from classicswede.uk
    I've been waitng a long long long time to get them to process my order. After dozens of attempts to get it sorted, I'm starting to lose faith.

    I aim to have the engine ready within a month or so...

    I am a year into waiting for classic Swede to send me a boot lock seal, keeps telling me they are having tooling issues 🙄, it’s a shame as I have had great dealings with Dai in the past...
    ALVO360
  • Update: bottom end has been stripped, crank looks great. Cylinders have been honed, rings have been gapped and block, pistons, gasket/seal surfaces have all been cleaned.
    Lots and lots of cleaning.
    I will be assembling the bottom end over the weekend and preparing the cylinder head, too.
    I will post photos of my progress once I fish through my collection. I have had 2 broken phones since my last post 😟😭 so photos are scattered in several folders on my computer.
    egadsGhettobirdRaebirdpaul0075bgpzfm142
  • I have a 360glt headlight protector if you need one
    ALVO360
  • GhettobirdJulian (@Ghettobird) Melbourne - SE Suburbs
    I was wondering what happened to this thing at Nats!!
    Shame it couldn't make it in time
  • @ALVO360 any interest in a spare 360 gearbox and rear end? Free to good home but needs to be picked up from hume or going to scrap on Wednesday
    ALVO360
  • @timbo Mate, I really appreciate that offer. I have too many 360's and actually have a storage problem I have to deal with. I sincerely thank you!!
    @ramrod I'm pretty sure I'm good for now. I think I have 4 good headlights to work with. But thanks for your offering.
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