Cam205
Evening all.
Long time lurker first time poster. Im usually posting over on aussiefrogs.com as Im heavily into French cars ( disaster I know ). I race a 205 GTi and have a few odd Frenchies that entertain me. Anyway back to the Volvo.
My better half refuses to drive any other car. Must be a 240 Wagon. Shes had an 89 Wagon for the last couple of years. Although it has been perfectly reliable its got rust issues and needs to be moved on. Theres some suspension work to be done, main seal, lots of knocks in the front end, leaking shocks and did I mention the rust..!
Ive come across a 92 Wagon that is in great shape body/interior wise and has 230k on the clock. Its only had a couple of owners and service history is fairly good afaik. I want it to be super tight and ride nicely for her. The car has been sat for a little while. ( I drive Citroens and enjoy good ride quality ). Im going to the US on Monday and will be there for a week or so. Is it worth ordering parts form the US and bringing them back in my luggage or are parts cheap enough here in OZ?
Heres my projected list or suspension related parts.
- Front Wishbone Bushes x 4
- Balljoints x 2
- Tie rods x 2
- ARB bushes ( can I buy a new 23mm from sway bar in the US and 21mm rear?) x2
- Droplinks x 2
- Strut Top Rubbers/Bush x 2
Im not up to speed on the rear axel arrangement of the Volvos yet ( Ive built many cars in my time just not RWD Volvos! ). What are the crucial bushings and bearings that need attention with a car of these kilometers to preserve the ride and road holding? Im looking to order the rear bush set from IPD ( along with the listed items above ). It contains 10 bushes ( Im researching now as time is a little of the essence ) which Im hoping will cover most of the trailings arms and P rods?
The car will be having a fresh B230F installed as the motor in it needs attention. While the engine is out I want to try and tidy/prevent/restore the engine bay and suspension components within reason. If you had the opportunity to bring a few bits home form the states what would it be considering what work the car is having done? Is there any thing Im missing or really need to get or do to the car?
The above list so far is $480 AUD shipped to my friends place in LA. I usually would try and support local business ( like I try with the french stuff ) but have this opportunity. Plus Im very excited!
Im on the lookout for an B230FT motor to install into it in 12 months time. She has a week away booked with her mother and when she comes back it would be nice to have a hairdryer on it for her! ( me really! )
Thanks in advance.
Cam
Vee_Que
In brief. Ipd is more expensive than fcpeuro, but the ipd sway bars are ok. That being said, Ash at DVS.net.au has developed his own rate springs for 240s that suit better than what you can get elsewhere for Australia.
Putting a turbo motor in is half the job, you will need the lh 2.4 turbo ecus if you want it to run well, and factory turbo intercooler and piping bolts straight in, people in the past have gone straight to custom piping and a bad fitting intercooler, with no great gain other than spending more.
An engine with 230k and good compression is considered low kms, unlike a French wet sleeve motor, the cast iron block stands up to a lot of abuse and missed services. And of course no liner moment with sheer age.
Careful with going full poly, they are available here on eBay, sometimes cheaper as well for the same brands. The major things are the torque rods on the rear on the body side, iirc it will transmit more vibrations with not much gain in handling.
Being a late 240, the Aw70 could use a service as well as oil cooler if it ever will be driven hard, plus a swap to an Aw71 from a turbo, or 93 on 940gl, when you plan to put a Turbo motor in. The 70 and even a worn 71 will be on borrowed time.
Of course, timing belt, water pump and tensioners done if your unsure of the cars history. Contitech, gates or genuine Volvo is my preference for belts, pump is hepu iirc, which is a German one that fcpeuro sell.
Cam205
Excellent. Thanks for the input.
The turbo conversion is a little while away at the moment. Will keep the mentioned advice handy!
Is there anywhere that sells 23/21 bars? I can only find the 25mm which will be a little too much for the daily drive I would Imagine.
Yes some of the Pug motors used wet liners. There issuses were mostly oil starvation! The 230 motors are like small truck motors and just seem to go forever.
Once the car gets home Ill pop up a thread to document the progress.
Thanks again. Cam
Vee_Que
An Austin healy six is a truck motor, the b230 is just a stout car block!
23/21 was the 242gt sways, they are getting very hard to find iirc.
Spac
A B23 is a tractor motor, a B230 is a more refined tractor! :)
I agree with Alex otherwise.
Be aware that some suspension parts seem to defy parts listings - either due to long changeover periods at the factory, or people swapping parts in the past.
The rear torque rods (aka upper trailing arm) are one of those items - there are two different types of rods, with two different types of bushes.
So either check what you have before you order, or accept that you may order the wrong part.
GLE swaybars are larger than GL/DL items, although the sizes escape me now. They are worth very little and not difficult to find.
GT swaybars differ by year. Pretty sure that the 79 model is 23/23, 80 is 23/21.
Nobody in Australia will go within a mile of FCP's prices for generic stuff. The Aussie suppliers of performance parts are far more competitive and are always worth asking.
240
I have the same car as you but a sedan.
Mine actually has a factory B230FX, which has a better head and camshaft. So you should check if you have that motor, before you bin the old one. Look near the spark plugs, on the head will be stamped either "1000 530" or "1000 531", if it is a 531 head it is likely an FX motor.
I'm pretty sure the motor type is also in the VIN or engine number.
Unless it has serious damage you can likely get the existing motor running well, 230k is nothing for that engine and most of the maintenance stuff is easy to do.
If possible, keep your current wagon for spares, you will appreciate having lots of spare bits (even just things like bolts, switches etc).
Regarding suspenon, email Ash at DVS, he is very helpful.
There are two big bushes on the rear axle (called rear trailing arm bushes I think). I would strongly suggest having them replaced with rubber, and the front of the trailing arm with poly. (I did it the other way round and sort of regret it.)
For swaybars, the front 26 or 27mm bar from an EL Falcon fits, you just have to modify the Falcon D bush to fit the 240 bracket.
There will be a bunch of other things you'll find need doing - faded headlight reflectors, broken trim, possibly broken odometer gear, engine mounts, etc etc.
Definitely do the gearbox oil, my AW71 broke soon after I got the car and I doubt it would have, if it had had its fluid done.
Also, find a steering wheel from an 87-89 model car as they are smaller in diameter and much nicer to use.
If you're getting parts from overseas, be sure to get "one off" things that you probably won't ever have to change again. I'd suggest idle motor, breather box and crank position sensor to begin with.
Cam205
Back from the states. Things didnt really go to plan. I managed to get a bunch of stuff from IPD that was fairly reasonable. Ive a friend bringing them back so 'free' shipping was nice.
I managed to find a 23mm front Turbo 240 sway bar. Ive also go the larger sedan rear bar to go in the back. THe missus wont know..
Major Ledfoot
^ She might find out real quick if it's a big rear sway bar and she gives it some in the wet. But maybe you're married to Molly Taylor or someone like her, and so that situation will then be like a just-another-day-at-the-office type scenario for her...
Just that 240s in the wet are very prone to sudden oversteer in wet weather conditions on street tyres with thick rear sways. The standard 240 rear bar is 19mm IIRC, and the first round of 242GTs had 23mm bars (brains trust, please correct me if I'm wrong here) which made them.... exciting. Subsequent issues of the GTs went to 21mm rears and were more polite as a result.
240
@bgpzfm142 I forget... in the scenario you describe with a 242GT, does changing to a thicker front bar increase or decrease oversteer?
Vee_Que
Decrease, I've a locker helps a lot with the whole oversteer situation. At least in controlling it.
AshDVS
Welcome aboard Cameron!
For a road car, we typically recommend a mix of urethane and oem style rubber bushes, this helps minimise the increase in NVH that can happen if you go crazy with urethane and also provide decent service life of the bushes used.
Regarding swaybars,
Here are the Volvo factory swaybar details and where to get what from –
FRONT –
• 17mm (very early 240s)
• 19mm (really common. Most years have these)
• 21mm (’84 and ’85 240GLE models as well as some 242GT models)
• 23mm (’79 242GT)
REAR –
• 17mm (very early 240s)
• 19mm (really common. Most years have these
• 21mm (’84 and ’85 240GLE models, '80 242GT)
• 23mm (optional, available from the Volvo ‘R Sport’ catalogue via the dealer in late ‘70s and early ‘80s)
Consider the above a guide only, as there are always nuances and volvo are renowned for raiding the parts bin and some cars were oddities.
Other than that, have fun with the new project.
Major Ledfoot
240;127125 wrote@bgpzfm142 I forget... in the scenario you describe with a 242GT, does changing to a thicker front bar increase or decrease oversteer?
Oversteer is more an issue with having a very large rear bar, rather than a large front bar. A huge front bar isn't so much of a problem on a 240; a huge rear bar potentially can be.
Dialling in as much positive caster as possible at the front, and forgetting all about that silly factory setting of 0 to +1 deg positive camber and instead giving it a little bit of negative camber (although it won't be much with the factory strut hats, as they limit it a lot) will do much to get rid of that nasty feel at speed.
I recommend
@AshDVS ' recommendations on suspension bushes.
gavinh
Yep I second recommend @AshDVS for any bushings etc
Cam205
Thanks for the reply guys
Ive ordered all rubber bushings except for the front 23mm sway bar which comes with new brackets as its hard to find the oe 23mm bushes. Im a fan of not too much poly on a road car so Im glad you all agree there.
Ill be using the sedan 240 19mm rear bar in the wagon ( I thought the wagon rear bar was smaller than 19mm as the springs are stiffer in the wagon?) with the 23mm front. I dont think it will be too skittish. If it turns out to be Ill go back down.
Ill get my mechanic to have a look at the geometry at the front of the car. I like the sound of more caster and a touch of neg camber. Ill probably dial in a touch of toe out also.
Ill be having a look and possibly picking up the car this weekend so will keep this updated accordingly.
Regards Cam
Cam205
OK
Ive been to inspect and pay for the car today. Its a White 92 Wagon with 230k and 1 owner. I was for sale on here a while back and couldnt believe it was still for sale after seeing it today.
It does have a head-gasket issue with oil in the water and visa versa. Ive already picked up another 92 Sedan that has a genuine 150k with stuffed paint that I will swap the motor and box from.
I now have a growing Volvo problem. ( apparently this usually happens?) 3 240s. An 89 240 Wagon 180k rusty and tired suspension, 92 Sedan 156k mint engine and box, stuffed paint. 92 Wagon 230k Mint paint and interior with a dud headgasket which is the keeper.
The idea ( derr ) is to make the 92 Wagon a mint ride for the better half. Of the 3 cars is there anything I should be swapping over onto/into the 92 cars from the others?
Rear tailgate hinges and wiring need attention. Wiring is broken and the hinges look worn. Are the hinges ( black ones ) and the wiring harness available in Australia? Ive found the wiring in the EU but nothing local as yet. No luck with hinges.
Im fairly excited to get it on the road. More importantly my wife loves it and cant wait to get it going.
She wants roof racks for it. Is it possible to fit the factory racks if not already fitted?
Thanks again
PS the other 2 cars or parts of them will be up for grabs.
240
Congrats, I remember seeing that car for sale and thinking it looked nice.
Would be interested in seeing pictures of the 2 parts cars as well.
Cam205
Thanks! After seeing it today Im very happy with the outcome. It just needs a light polish and a detail and should come up ace. Paint is really good and theres barely and chips or dings on it.
Ill have the cars in one spot in a couple of weeks so will get some pics once its in my hot little hands!
Vee_Que
It would be easier to pull the head off and see if it's any good in the bores before putting a whole motor in, given both are 92s.
Major Ledfoot
Cam205;127323 wroteI now have a growing Volvo problem. ( apparently this usually happens?)
Heh. Tell me about it (see my sig)...
Of the 3 cars is there anything I should be swapping over onto/into the 92 cars from the others?
Not really, unless the 89 has a trim piece, etc, in better condition.
Rear tailgate hinges and wiring need attention. Wiring is broken and the hinges look worn. Are the hinges ( black ones ) and the wiring harness available in Australia?
I presume you mean the tailgate harness? See if one of your parts cars has a good tailgate harness and use that, if possible.
Black hinges are just silver hinges coated with black paint AFAIK, bit like 242GT rear window surrounds. I'd see about getting the hinges black chromed or powder coated - it's what I may do with my 145, which has the same hinges.
PS the other 2 cars or parts of them will be up for grabs
Make sure you grab the cargo area window seals from the 92 - they are the late model ones with water drainage dimples, and fit everything back to the 2nd run of 145s. The earlier model cargo window seals collect dirt and water and end up causing rust on the bottom of the rear window frame on the rear quarter panels.
Cam205
Thanks for the reply
I thought the tailgate hinges were different? The earlier models dont open as much unless Im mistaken?
Im keeping the 92 wagon so not sure if you mean the 89 cargo area seals? The 89 has chronic rust on the rear corners near the tail lights. I fixed up up for the latest rego inspection a year ago. Its spread all under the rear beaver panel long before we bought it. Would need a new entire section putting in to be done properly. IMO.
VQ. The more I think about it the more it makes sense to check the HG issue. Ill get the mech to check it out and go from there.