240 No Start

edited September 19 in Troubleshooting 959 / 67joined Sep 2014
1990/91 240 (August 1990 on compliance plate, but 1991 on the rego papers).

Several times over the last year my 240 has cut out. I made a mental note of it but didn't pay it a huge amount of attention, because it was always just after starting to move off in drive after starting the engine, and (coincidence probably) usually on cold nights in supermarket car parks or during rain - plus it always restarted immediately. Apart from that it has run like a... heh - Swedish watch. (No misfiring, etc.)

Today it started, ran about 10 seconds, and stopped. Cranked it again - no start. Between the tests below I've tried to start it many times. Most of the time it cranks with no sign of starting. But now again it nearly starts like before - only when I first hit the key.

* Battery in ex.condition with plenty of kick
* No ignition or fuel injection error codes showing
* Cam turns (timing belt hasn't snapped)
* Checked and spun all fuses to ensure a good connection
* Jumpering fuse 4 & 6 starts the fuel pump - still no engine start
* Strong orange spark present at sparkplug leads
* Showing about 80V on the blue coil wire to ground (and counting down 0.1V every half second). *Is 80V normal?*
* Disconnect AMM: no start. It says online to disconnect the battery first. But I had just showered and was trying to get somewhere so didn't bother. Why do they say that? (Have I killed the AMM by disconnecting it with the battery still connected?)
* Cannot find any 25A blade fuse holder near the coil as shown in online pics. It does say online that fuse was replaced by fuse #6 on 1991-93 cars. (Which is why I mentioned my car manufacture date and rego papers date.)
* Car starts using starter fluid (25% ether), lambda sond light on dash is lit while running, runs for quite a while, accelerator has no effect though and engine eventually dies. Repeated this test a few times.
* If I jumper fuse 4 & 6 and spray ether again, produces the same result as previous point.
* If I then disconnect AMM ether doesn't start the car!? Reconnect AMM and ether works again.

Sigh: Ideas please?
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Comments

  • bgpzfm142bgpzfm142 (@bgpzfm142) near Katoomba NSW
    2240 / 132joined Feb 2014
    YM 1990 will be LH 2.4. Have you checked for codes?
    1LQhVAhm.png
    71 1800E |73 144 |74 142 |74 145 |79 242GT |88 780 |93 945T |2010 S80 V8
  • 959 / 67joined Sep 2014
    Yep, "No ignition or fuel injection error codes showing".
  • 959 / 67joined Sep 2014
    Hm... Just saw a 1990 240 on youtube with similar symptoms to mine before it refused to start completely. The guy said it was his crank position sensor and changes it in the video. But another general video about crank position sensors says if the CPS isn't working you get no spark! Can't both be right!?
  • bgpzfm142bgpzfm142 (@bgpzfm142) near Katoomba NSW
    2240 / 132joined Feb 2014
    Yep, "No ignition or fuel injection error codes showing".

    Ooops. Mea culpa. :( This time, I'll open my eyes before replying.

    Do you have a radio suppression relay in your car? If so, have you bypassed it?

    Re the CPS / RPM sensor - you may get one zap, but it needs to go zap/zap/zap. Also, the insulation at the connection point into the sensor deteriorates and fails, especially if it's a heater hose dump coolant on top of it. That may cause the sensor to short out intermittently.
    Vee_Que
  • 959 / 67joined Sep 2014
    Hm... I can't see a radio suppression relay in the 1990 or 1991 circuit diagram.

    Consumer electronics often has service manuals that lead you through test points on a circuit to fault-find. (Test for +5V on resistor #149. If present test capacitor #39 for short circuit. If +5V on R149 not present, test pin 25 of Integrated Circuit 10. Etc.) Is there a Volvo fault-finding procedure similar to that?
  • 2296 / 46joined Oct 2013
    Im gonna go with intank pump. You say it runs fine on lighter fluid so meaning your problem is most definitely fuel related. Have someone jump fuse 4 and 6 while you listen to hear if the intank pump is running. If it is then pull the pump regardless as you may just have a disintergrated filter sock.

    A quick and dirty way to test this is to get a small bottle of fuel, connect a short run of hose to the inlet of the main pump and the other side in the bottle of fuel. Try and start the car and if it starts then you know your problem is in the tank.
  • bgpzfm142bgpzfm142 (@bgpzfm142) near Katoomba NSW
    2240 / 132joined Feb 2014
    Is there a Volvo fault-finding procedure similar to that?

    Closest thing to a step-by-step process is the Volvo Problem Solver.

    http://www.volvowiringdiagrams.com/volvo/Trouble Shooting Guides/Volvo Problem Solver Advanced Edition-1.pdf
  • jamesincJames (@jamesinc) Oz Volvo Ice Fortress
    7441 / 409joined Jul 2013
    Hit the pump under the car with a mallet or large spanner a few times. If the pump's dying, it might revive it for a few minutes/weeks.

    240s don't have a radio suppression relay, that's a 7/9 thing.
    Vee_Que
  • 959 / 67joined Sep 2014
    I'll go through your messages in a sec. I'm back and forth between computer and garage... I vaguely recalled an error code being present when I bought the car a few years ago. Turns out I was trying to display codes the wrong way yesterday. It displays 144 on pin 6 (Load signal from MFI system absent). BUT I just cleared the code, cranked the car twice more - and that error hasn't returned. (Just 1-1-1 now.)

    Grr... And now it's raining, LOL.
  • carnut222carnut222 (@carnut222) Daylesford VIC
    246 / 46joined Feb 2017
    Interesting - I've had my 91 240 wagon die before but usually re-starts OK. I also got code 144...I was leaning towards fuel pump relay issue, as I have replaced the crank sensor and about everything else. Since it hasn't happened again recently I didn't bother, but I did buy a new fuel pump relay that I plan to swap in. Double-check the fuel pump relay and double-check that when you're jumpering fuses to get the fuel pump to start that the fuel and ignition computers are getting power too. Otherwise I think Black Dynamite might be onto something with in-tank pump or possible blocked pump pick-up sock...and of course make sure it's not out of fuel! :)
    Vee_Que
  • 959 / 67joined Sep 2014
    * Pretty sure the code has been there from before I owned it. It shows no more codes after being cleared and trying to start it several times.
    * Over half a tank of fuel.
    * Haven't researched how to check the computers yet.

    Gave it good long crank a few hours ago. No ether was used today. It nearly started a few times. (Was hoping to get it running long enough to reach my mechanic.)

    Then I unplugged the in-tank pump wires, and:

    a) tested if voltage was reaching the socket when pin 4 & 6 are bridged - yes.
    b) tested the pump itself by applying an external 12V source, so I didn't have to crawl in the boot to hear it over the main pump. It runs. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean it's pumping fuel.

    To attempt Black Dynamite's suggested test I had to go buy a piece of fuel hose. On a pushbike. Several km and back. In the rain, LOL. (I want to do it safely, with no fuel leaking on the garage floor, and so I'm the one turning the key.) Going to try that test now - if I can tolerate lying on the cold concrete in wet clothes. :-|
  • 2296 / 46joined Oct 2013
    * Pretty sure the code has been there from before I owned it. It shows no more codes after being cleared and trying to start it several times.
    * Over half a tank of fuel.
    * Haven't researched how to check the computers yet.

    Gave it good long crank a few hours ago. No ether was used today. It nearly started a few times. (Was hoping to get it running long enough to reach my mechanic.)

    Then I unplugged the in-tank pump wires, and:

    a) tested if voltage was reaching the socket when pin 4 & 6 are bridged - yes.
    b) tested the pump itself by applying an external 12V source, so I didn't have to crawl in the boot to hear it over the main pump. It runs. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean it's pumping fuel.

    To attempt Black Dynamite's suggested test I had to go buy a piece of fuel hose. On a pushbike. Several km and back. In the rain, LOL. (I want to do it safely, with no fuel leaking on the garage floor, and so I'm the one turning the key.) Going to try that test now - if I can tolerate lying on the cold concrete in wet clothes. :-|

    Good luck!
    egads
  • 959 / 67joined Sep 2014
    While the in-tank pump fuel line was disconnected at the main pump, I put a bucket underneath it's outlet hose, reconnected it's power, and cranked the engine to see if it pumps fuel out of the tank.

    * No, does not pump fuel when cranking engine.
    * Yes, does pump fuel when fuse 4 & 6 are bridged.

    I know what you're thinking... fuel relay - so onto Black Dynamite's test to confirm.

    One end of short piece of fuel hose to main pump inlet. Other end shoved into a hole drilled in the lid of a 1L dish detergent bottle. Bottle filled with fuel, turned upside down, pushed in between rubber brake lines to hold it in position upside down so there's no doubt fuel is flowing down into main pump.

    * Crank engine - acts like it's going to start after a couple of cranks but dies. (It's done that a lot so that's no indication of any success.)
    * Bridge fuse 4 & 6 - crank engine - acts like it's going to start again - I crank and crank and crank while it splutters and tries to gain enough revs to finally start... but just dies and goes back to dead rotations. Cranked another 3 times with a pause between. Then tried 3 seconds worth of ether - but doesn't start on ether this time! Ok, 5 seconds of ether - nope! By now all the fuel gone out of the 1L bottle which has been sucked flat. That fuel being delivered to the engine by the main pump must be returning to the tank. Only very intermittently does some of it reaching the pistons when it nearly starts.

    I wish I could have my K-Jet again. [Sob!] :-(
  • 959 / 67joined Sep 2014
    Guys, when you read off diagnostic codes... If I plug the probe into socket 6, the LED glows very dimly, push button 2 seconds, it flashes off 1-1-1. But if I test #2, the LED is on bright - all the time. Is that normal?

    Not sure why but coil was showing 80-90V yesterday. TODAY it's at battery voltage level.
  • 959 / 67joined Sep 2014
    Thank you. I'll read that in a sec.

    * Removed all fuses, cleaned off a small amount of corrosion.
    * Resoldered fuel pump relay.

    No joy.
  • 2296 / 46joined Oct 2013
    Hmm I wonder if you aren't getting enough pressure at the rail. If you pull the vacuum line off the regulator does it smell strongly of petrol?
  • lasercowboyRico (@lasercowboy) SE Suburbs, Melbourne
    840 / 27joined May 2015
    Did you test that the fuel pump relay definitely actuates after you resoldered it? You can test it using the battery and a couple of bits of wire...
    '89 240 wagon (B230F, M47) - 'Veronica'; '10 S40 2.4i auto - 'Charlie Runkle'
  • 959 / 67joined Sep 2014
    @Slowbrick - No fuel smell.

    Laptop out with me in the garage now. Just short of FREEZING here!

    @lasercowboy - Just tested the fuel pump relay actually. Plugged it in, turned the key on/off several times while holding onto the relay - and can feel it latching.

    A mechanic I spoke to mumbled the fuel pumps should come on for a second or two after turning the key to ignition, but before cranking. I can't remember if that happened before this fault or not, but it's not happening now. Is he correct?

    Side note:

    Earlier today one site said orange spark = good, another said blue = good, orange = dying coil. Easy enough to test, so I measured the ignition coil. It's Bosch part number 0221122334 (0 221 122 334). Primary resistance = 1.4 ohms, secondary = 7.35k ohms.

    They say to look up the vehicle manual to find what the acceptable range for your coil specs should be. But it's packed in a box somewhere - and do you think I can find it? So... an online search of the coil part number would reveal its specs, right? Wrong. It's an old model, can't find the specs.

    The current Bosch equivalent is a GT40R, which has Primary resistance of 1.2 ohms, secondary 8-10k ohms. So I'm measuring a bit higher on primary, but lower on secondary. No idea if those figures are acceptable or not.
  • lasercowboyRico (@lasercowboy) SE Suburbs, Melbourne
    840 / 27joined May 2015
    A mechanic I spoke to mumbled the fuel pumps should come on for a second or two after turning the key to ignition, but before cranking. I can't remember if that happened before this fault or not, but it's not happening now. Is he correct?

    Definitely.
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