pauljloz
Chasing an obscure no start condition on the 244.
A week ago wouldn't start. Tried again a couple of hours later - started and ran no problems.
Died again whilst daughter was driving Friday. Prior it was running hard and sweet, starting fine, smooth idle (for K cam).
RAA diagnosed fuel pump (low current)
It half fires with the first attempt to start then just cranks.
Fuel
- both pumps running / current normal (relay OK)
- delivered about 1 litre in 30 sec in the return line
- injectors spray nicely and sing (checked 2 lifting distributor plate)
- AFM moves smoothly
Ignition
- there's spark ~20mm
- coil ohms / volts check
- ballast resistor checks (1ohm)
- hall sensor checks (1k)
Camshaft is turning (belt OK)
Vacuum hoses have been replaced over the years - no obvious leaks. Engine harness was also replaced about a year ago.
Replaced fuel filter. Air filter dirty but not the issue.
Had known good main pump and accumulator so I swapped them in. No change.
I'm looking for some fresh ideas before I delve deeper. Thoughts anyone?
peterwgpa
Paul. We had an issue with our distributor with car dieing after approximately 15minutes as it warmed up. Once car cooled down it would start and run again until it warmed up and then fire would go out again. Turned out to be the internals in the distributor and once we changed it out it went away.
From our experience if it was the ignition module it would not fire at all.
Good luck
Peter
pauljloz
Thanks Peter,
Unfortunately it wont run at all.
I'm pretty sure its fuel as it'll fire and run a few seconds if I lift the AFM flap to get some fuel into it.
Seem like low fuel pressure. WUR ?
Paul
peterwgpa
Into the realms of fuel pressure testing me thinks. Good luck. The Volvo Green books are a good place to start re trouble shooting from scratch
Anthony
Old trick #1 - ensure the fuel tank is at least over 1/2 to 3/4 full.
If the 240 now runs, this indicates a rubber hose in the in-tank pump has perished and is sucking air rather than fuel. When tank is over half its high enough to be draw fuel and run just OK only.
(Note for the above, the in-tank pump is working but doing nothing much as there is a hole, but the main pump will draw fuel but not at all ideally and it will whine and winge accordingily because the main is a push pump (squeezes fuel to a high pressure) , not a suck/draw/feed pump being the in tank unit).
pauljloz
Thanks Anthony,
I haven't pulled the tank pump yet - over 1/2 on the gauge. I have reasonable flow in the return line and can get the injectors to release when I move the AFM flap from below. This dumps fuel and engine will it will fire briefly.
The senders never been pulled so I will do this for preventative maintenance anyway. (Not in a rush - still recovering from doing the XC90 a few weeks back)
I did check spray when cranking (with injector port filled by a spare injector) and its only a small squirt. Low pressure I think. I'm waiting for a pressure gauge to arrive. Do you know if the O-rings in the pressure regulator give trouble?
pauljloz
In-tank pump working. Hose had already been replaced.
Checked the fuel pressures
Line - 72psi
Control - 30psi
Rest pressure retained for > 20 min.
Starting to wonder what I've missed so:
- checked cam belt alignment marks as this was recently replaced. OK
- tach moves when cranking
- dist cap was dirty though have spark - replaced.
- replaced an AAV hose that had started to split.
Have just learnt Daughter had just filled up with fuel (to about 60%) and it died within a few minutes of leaving the station.
Smells like petrol - looks like petrol.
Anthony
OK you have completed heaps of checks well done but what can it be then?
From what you say it can Fire on cranking but it's not running on.
So cold start injector likely ok.
Check - down at the starter motor is a thin wire that connects to a spade connector - is it secure and from memory it goes back to the key ign switch.
- fuel pump relay
- Pull a plug (are they wet?) and hold against metal valve cover. Have someone crank to see a spark across the arc.
- Interesting you say it has a hall sensor dizzy which was a mid 1985 update. Can you borrow a known good one.
pauljloz
Thanks Anthony,
I've now also:
- pulled 3 sparkplugs - all wet (ish) and firing
- it is the inductor distributor - not hall sensor (my mistake). All mechanically ok.
- I've bypassed the relay when cranking.
- drained fuel tank and injector lines and refuelled with fresh fuel (given this occurred following refuelling).
- checked all injectors spraying (into bottles) lifting the AFM plate.
> at low flow, starts as a dribble > squirt then spray
> good fine conical spray at med-high flow
- haven't checked the cold start injector - ambient temp is over 30C
I'm focussing on fuelling as I had someone crank the engine and lifted the AFM plate a little. The engine ran for about 15 seconds.
I have a set of known good injectors that I can try but at this point I'm just swapping parts since the other items check out.
My next thoughts are:
- use a vacuum gauge to check vacuum when cranking to see if there's an obscure air leak
- do a compression check (should've when the plugs were out).
- swap injectors
I do have a complete B230E for parts. I could swap in but would prefer to solve as this car has a know history and good service history (305,000km of frequent oil changes). Rubber hoses are on 3rd or 4th change.
Fuel pump was changed in 1990. Injector seals have been done a few times but hard again and due.
Recent items over the last 4 years on this car have been:
- cooling related (plastic tank, radiator, several hoses).
- replaced one injector (ceased to flow / ran rough)
- did compression test about a year ago - all good.
- clutch / master cylinder
- starter motor and alternator (didn't risk a third overhaul)
- engine harness (rewired from scratch)
- cam belt.
pauljloz
Success at last.
After working through a few marginal items
- distributor cap (was arcing internally) & ignition leads from the donor car
- a leaky injector seal
- plugged up evap. system vac lines at throttle body
- lots more cranking
managed to get the car to start (then stall).
This occurred over a few hours and the ambient temp is now 25C so the cold start injector is firing (earlier attempts were at 30C)
Eventually the run time increased - but it would stall with any throttle. Then it came good.
Strange smell with the longer run times at first - like a truck and some smoke ......
Though I'd drained the tank, I think that a combination of factors contributed to no start:
- petrol / diesel mix hindered combustion (daughter cant be sure :) )
- residual diesel after draining plus 20l premium 98 still not a great mix
- marginal spark hindered combustion with new fuel (blend)
- diesel viscosity hindered fuel distributor operation (leaned out fuelling even with new fuel)
- I didn't follow the draining description in the green book (didn't drain all fuel lines, injector hoses, fuel distributor) - merely flow tested the injectors about <0.2 litres in total - meaning it took longer to work through the system.
FYI diesel and premium 98 are very similar in colour - so not as easy as it used to be to spot when mixed approx. 50-50 as it would have been!
Anthony
Lesson learnt then for someone in the family.
In a sense your lucky as if the opposite happened and petrol was placed in a diesel Ive heard its far far worse.
Glad the nightmare is solved.
tbro
Anthony,
Don't believe everything you hear. Petrol in a diesel if its more than say 10% the unit won't run on petrol, but it does clean the injector nozzles quite well.
An old trick back when, mobs would put 20 litres in the 2000l tanks every so often to clean out the injectors and throw massive flames out of the exhaust stacks, looked impressive in the middle of the night running down Sesame Street (Hume Highway). Same mob also wore spurs and cowboy hats thus the term cowboys.
Just my experience...........
gavinh
Hi Im just having a similar problem with a B28E kjet, and I traced it out to be a faulty impulse sensor in the dizzy, basically checked if I was getting a spark at the coil, and voltage through the resistors to term 15 on coil. The trigger wire was dead and that came from the bosch ecu thingy to the impulse sensor on the dizzy to the coil. No spark,
If I'm wrong on any of this feel free to correct me.
Gav