240
Just thought that out of interest, I thought I'd see what thoughts people have on what Volvos from the 850 onwards are good. Everything that I've read or been told so far says that they're not particularly reliable and cost a lot to run from a parts/servicing point of view (as well as being more difficult to work on for a DIY person). Are there any exceptions to this, or any models that are better to own than others?
Rob
Stay away from anything with 6 cylinders and/or 5 speed autos.
5 cylinder cars with manual transmissions are great.
240
I thought it was only the P2 Volvos that had the bad autos? Or are the later ones not so good either?
So to give me some perspective - what's it like to own a 5 cylinder manual car compared to a RWD Volvo, in terms of reliability, running costs, repairs etc?
Jamest5r_
I've found with my 850 and v70 both early ones once you have given them a full stage zero they are very reliable just basic service once a year and normal consumables, not spent a penny on my V70 in about 2 years now
Ex850R
As above , sage advice from addicted ovlovers....
Stage '0' is all hoses , tubes , CTS - Ccoolant temp sensor , thermostat , dizzy cap plugs and use only Volvo plugs and Volvo Bougicord plug wires. New cam and accessory belts and water pump. The pcv can and hoses.
Then do the suspension bushes , strut bearing plt and rubber bush , LCA , drop links etc.
You are then set for another 20 years!
All parts from overseas , some sell kits for each area of car of all parts needed.
Some tight spots of course as compared to a 240 which has massive room as all old cars do , its easy enough to work on.
You are moving to a modern car with the body and drive line packaging that gives you crash safety and lots of room inside.
Drive one for a bit.
familyman
> what's it like to own a 5 cylinder manual car compared to a RWD Volvo, in terms of reliability, running costs, repairs etc?
I've never owned a FWD - but what I can offer is that I've spent VERY minimal money since I bought the first 240 in 1993:
One fuel accumulator. Two sets of engine mounts. (Should have replaced one gearbox mount but never bothered.) One brake equaliser block (sorry don't know the correct name), one worn inner tie rod, two ball joints (because their rubbers had perished). One internally perished clutch hose. A set of K-Jet fuel injector seals. One water pump because of a leak. A few sets of brake pads, several air/fuel/oil filters, spark plugs, oil changes, and tyres of course. One distributor cap, one rotor, and two sets of leads (yes I'm serious). A few broken windscreen visor clips. Two, maybe 3 sets of brake rotors. One worn brake pedal rubber. One re-cored radiator. Set of radiator hoses. Lots of brake bulbs. One H4 headlight bulb. One alternator rebuild. Years later (and a different car) one set of alternator brushes. Repaired the driver seat web-spring on two cars myself with spare bits. More recently replaced a faulty brake master cylinder because this car was rarely driven. Oh - and the clutch on our '78 - which was apparently replaced a few months before we purchased it - was just about worn out again approx 9 years later when the car was disposed of. Rust killed our first '76 otherwise probably would still own it today. Mechanic spied a leak in the forward diff seal of one car - but that stopped itself without needing a new seal.
BTW. It's not like I did any careful preventative maintenance. In fact the first car used more and more oil at the end. So I often forgot to fill it until the dash lights glowed red around corners for a couple of weeks - only to find the engine dry - and drove several 60km trips between 'red light' and adding oil.
Have owned more than four 240s. But the above repairs are the cumulative total spread across 4 main cars since '93. (I've probably forgotten a few things, but obviously nothing major or I'd remember.) Driving somewhere between 15-20,000km per year. Never been left stranded, except once when the first car wouldn't start - no explanation - but I did give a good 'bash' to the area where the fuel relay was - car started - and that has never happened again; came close to stranded once when the clutch hydraulic hose failed internally (but made it to the mechanic before it finally collapsed); and once in a heatwave after belting down a freeway at 120km/hr for 40 minutes something odd happened and the starter motor wouldn't turn the engine until it had cooled down for about 20 minutes. I then did the same drive home in the same heat. That last one never occurred again.
So all I know is that's got to be hard to beat. I suspect owning only manuals until recently helped keep repairs down quite a bit. (Mechanic opened the '78 M45 and diff several years ago at my insistence - he didn't see the need... The oil in both were as if they were added the previous day.)
240
Yeah I know what you mean to be honest - the reason I got a 240 was because my dad had one a few years ago, he drove it for a couple of years and it had literally nothing done to it, except the alternator was repaired (didn't even change the oil). And this was with over half a million k's on the clock. It still ran OK when he regrettably got rid of it. So like you, my thinking was that surely that's hard to beat.
However of course the FWD cars are completely different in many ways. To be honest I didn't actually ask about them because I wanted to buy one, more just out of curiosity - and so I've got something more substantial to say when people ask me about whether they're good cars or not.
Spac
The first generation x40 is hard to beat for reliability. Especially if you get a turbo manual (the Renault manual box in the NA cars is a bit crap).
More generally, I think a lot of the hype about FWD vs RWD reliability is misguided, but not without basis.
I mean, a 240 is an exceptionally reliable platform, but there's a lot of glossing over their weak points (engine mounts, clutch forks, over-drives, heater fans, fuel pump relays, wiring on some models, seat belts, seats, headlights, etc).
The big thing is that these problems are well documented and understood, so everyone accepts them, without properly recognising them as being the PITA that they actually are.
In contrast, the common FWD problems SEEM like a bigger drama, simply because everyone on the internet says they are. These reputations develop when the car is quite new and a part fails and the owner takes his/her car to the Volvo dealer and is charged a ridiculous fee to replace it with the exact same part... All of the 240 issues would seem like catastrophes if we were taking our 240s to the dealer.
Plus the newer cars are much more complicated. This is true for every brand. It's the price we pay for having cars that are smoother, faster, safer and use less fuel than a 240...
I've owned and lived with six different FWD/AWD Volvos, including the dreaded early P2 XC70 with automatic. None of them have given any more grief than the RWD Volvos have.
Touching wood, the only time any of them have failed to proceed were:
Both P80 cars had O2 sensors fail (solved by unplugging the sensors);
S40 got water under two plug caps (solved by mopping up the water);
P2 ran out of fuel while showing "100km to empty" and fuel gauge above the red (had the same problem with a 144 twenty years earlier!).
240
Now that I think about it you're probably right Spac, perhaps the FWD problems just seem bigger.
What about longevity though? Will a FWD reach 500,000km as comfortably as a 240?
PaddlerEd
In terms of longevity, my V70 I had in the UK reached 225,000 miles without too many problems - what problems there were were due to my stupidity...
It was a 2000MY car, that was parked up in March 2010 for the rest of the year. Moving it around once a month my parents found minimal problems with it really, but when I came back to the UK it wasn't worth fixing - new clutch needed etc, although the clutch had been on it's way out since 2007 (and 173,000miles) so not too bad... We did find some rust starting on bits and pieces underneath it as we went along, but on the whole it still looked presentable, just bits were going wrong...
Vee_Que
I cringe when I read people not changing oil often. On the fwd volvos it is a death sentence by 200k, depending on the amount of owners. Most blow head gaskets about then and are sludged up inside to prove the lack of care by the owner.
AshDVS
The post above from @Spac is sound advice.
I've had 4 240s (including one that my wife had) and I've had 4* P80 cars now.
They all definitely have issues that need attending to, but they're not worse or better than eachother.
I love 240s - they really are the model that people think about when someone says 'Volvo' and they were an iconic car in the Group A touring car era.
On top of that, my first* car was a '79 245, so they have some sentimental value too.
As far as the P80 models are concerned, the three I've owned have been T5 models - a 1995 850T5 auto wagon, a 1997 S70T5 manual and more recently the 1998 V70T5 auto (I did have a 1997 V70T5 auto as a parts car too).
The P80 platform is VERY hard on front suspension items and front brakes, but stock vs stock, they're considerably quicker than a 240 and do handle better - its just the nature of a much newer platform.
If we're talking from a reliability viewpoint, I wouldnt own an auto P2 XC70 up until 2005 (at the earliest), nor would I own an XC90T6. There are enough failures of cars with varying service history to serve as adequate warning.
This isnt an odd story though amongst most manufacturers -
eg. For the recently released LZ Focus, Ford have just moved back from a DSG of sorts box to a conventional auto.
The LW Focus models with the dual clutch auto have seen LOTS of negative customer feedback with driveline harshness, shuddering and failure.
The is an internal service bulletin highlighting issues and at what point to replace the box.
My monster-in-law has a 2013 LW Focus Trend (2.0L, dual clutch auto) with 19k on it. Its been back twice already and is in this week to have a new box in it. Once it's back, its getting traded in.
Great car, but the auto issues are ordinary and you'd not be happy to have to worry about them outside of warranty.
I previously had a Ford Territory as a company car. They ran out of space on the inner drivers door frame to put the recall completion stickers.
Back to Volvos though, the P3 models are excellent. I know 3 high-km XC70 diesels. None of them feel like they've done 200k+ kms. Aside from maintenance stuff, they've been great.
The P1 platform (C30/S40/V50) is very good too. its shared with Ford/Mazda too and the only thing of note on Volvos is typical auto trans servicing and software updates and change the water pump when you do the timing belt.
Every manufacturer has their models they'd rather forget, Volvo is no exception.
I dont like the look of any of the new models really, but thats an opinion based on aesthetics and personal preference. The C30/S40/V50 was the last current-ish shape I liked.
Spac
240;67526 wroteNow that I think about it you're probably right Spac, perhaps the FWD problems just seem bigger.
What about longevity though? Will a FWD reach 500,000km as comfortably as a 240?
I think the Whiteblock is considerably more sensitive to oil condition/volume, and obviously a broken cam belt is a much larger problem... but if they are kept fresh, then I suspect they'll last as well as the redblock.
240
Thanks for all the info! I'm sure this thread will be useful to people in the future, too.
Ex850R
Vee_Que;67536 wroteI cringe when I read people not changing oil often. On the fwd volvos it is a death sentence by 200k, depending on the amount of owners. Most blow head gaskets about then and are sludged up inside to prove the lack of care by the owner.
'Most'??
They can actually run quite well with a myriad of issues.
My T has near 250K.
Philia_Bear
P1 manual fwd are near impossible to kill
98-04 s40/v40 are by far some of the best cars volvo has ever built
Manual d5/t5 fwd xc90 not to bad either
240
What about the 08 to (14?) XC70s? I do like the look of them.
Considering what you said - I noticed
this for sale this morning - does it look all right? Considering it for a relative who wants to replace her Hyundai, but needs a car that costs as little as possible to run.
Rob
240;67578 wroteWhat about the 08 to (14?) XC70s? I do like the look of them.
That is the P3. refer Ash's comments earlier.
AshDVS;67546 wrote
Back to Volvos though, the P3 models are excellent. I know 3 high-km XC70 diesels. None of them feel like they've done 200k+ kms. Aside from maintenance stuff, they've been great.
I have a P3 XC70, it is an exceptional vehicle.
SirNemesis
I like my 2010 XC70 even though I've only had it for a month and it's spent most of that time on the hoist lol
egads
I regret selling my p3 v70, it was great.