140 Alternator Wiring 164e

Hi,

I've recently put some components back together on a 1974 164e Manual I purchased.

The engine is turning over but no start.

The attached picture shows how I have wired the cables up but a fear I may have not it correct?

Also, I suppose it could also be a host of other issues.

Any pictures of a correctly wired alternator would be helpfull to allow me to problem solve.

Additionally, there seems to be another red wire situated in front of the radiator that is about the the right length to reach the alternator. Not sure where else it can go. I will add more pictures if required.

Any advice appreciated.


Thanks


Matt

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Comments

  • I'm new here and I don't know anybody yet, so forgive me if this information is beneath you :)

    I can't help you with the alternator wiring in particular, but it is highly unlikely to be the reason you can't get the engine started. The alternator is in the charge circuit. An engine should be able to run even if the alternator is dead (but in that scenario it will drain the battery). As for the red wire, what does the other end of it attach to?

    For getting the engine started, I always think of the internal combustion Holy trinity: Air, Fuel, and Fire. If you can smell fuel at the carburettor (it looks like it has a carburettor), you have fuel. Given that the engine is turning over, you clearly have power to the starter motor. I would start by seeing if there's any spark at your HT/spark plug leads.

  • edited March 17

    That engine has injectors. What you see is the air cleaner that sits on top of the butterfly.

    The alternator has an in-built regulator and is probably off a Holden or a Ford. Someone may correct me here, but the OEM version was a 55A SEV Marschal unit with an external regulator. No biggie either way, just make sure the belt runs in alignment with the other pulleys. Basically you have too many wires.

    Here's how to connect it:

    1. The big 6mm red wire attaches to the screw terminal.

    2. The wires to the external regulator and the external regulator are spare parts. Remove the red and green wires (and and other wires going to the same end devices) plus the black regulator on the inner guard.

    3. Find which of the 1.5mm wires (probably a red one) has 12V when the key is in the "ON" position and connect this to the terminal for the field wire (i.e. where the green wire is currently connected).

    Sit back, crack a cold one and admire a hard afternoon's job.

    Peugeot_504
  • Now for the brrm noise.

    3 legs to the chair are essential when they're in time: fuel, air and sparkles.

    Check through the oil hole in the rocker cover that the valves are going around.

    Pull #1 plug and connect the lead. Ground the plug and get someone to crank the engine over. No Spark = checking and setting points/condenser/coil/leads etc. Spark = replace the plug and go to the next step.

    Pull the injectors out of their holders and sit them on top of the holders. Crank the engine over and see whether you have fuel squirting out. No Fuel = a whole heap of possibilities. Fuel = put the injectors back in, it's a timing issue.

    See how you go with that as a starter.

    Peugeot_504
  • Ah, thanks for correcting me. I did wonder if the "E" in 164E denoted injection as it does on German cars - I guess it does!

  • Great thanks for the responses.

    I'm clearly a novice on mechanics but enjoying learning in the hope I will get this 164 started.

    The larger red cable connected to the alternator heads to the red battery cable and is connected to it at the battery.

    I will attempt to wire the alternator correctly but as mentioned this isn't what is stopping if from turning over.

    Now I understand the basic principles I will look to each area mentioned until I get some joy. Just need need to see if can make sense of the terminology!

    Would it be good practice to replace all spark plugs?

    No doubt I will be back on here with some more troubleshooting shortly!

    Picture shows the red cable from radiator location that I was unsure where it connected.

  • How to remove injectors from holders. Losen jubilee clip on hose?

  • Re injectors: the black collars simply 1/4 turn and they all lift out of the holders together with the fuel rail.

    Re alternator: does the red wire get 12V when the key is turned to the run/on position (i.e. just before the crank position)? If so, it's probably the field wire for the alternator.

    Re plugs: just remove them and clean them up. For now, ~40 thou is ok to get it started (~1.0mm). Even running on 4 pots is better than none.

  • OK removed injectors and I have nothing coming through.

    The fuel gauge had always read empty. I put 7 litres of premium and it still reads empty. Would 7 litres be enough to get it going?

    I believe the car had been sat for a while if this information help.

    I have attached the additional wire to the alternator. I have red light on the dash now (Amp) even when the key removed.

    Here's a vid, that shows the attempt to find fuel.

  • 7 litres may be enough, but I put 20 in mine and got to 1/4 tank reading. The tank holds something like 62 litres.

    Alternator: there is good and bad here. The good is the red wire is the field wire. The bad news is that there is a wiring/switch problem. Start by changing over the ignition switch on the back of the key barrel with the other car and see whether the problem persists.

    Fuel: so no fuel squirts when cranking? Does your pump run, even for a short burst when you first turn the key to "ON"? If not, you should start there, checking that there is 12V to the pump when cranking. 12V + no pump = dead pump. No 12V we start to cast the net wider, checking the fuel pump relay. The pump is located down under the floor near the left rear wheel.

    Do you have a wiring diagram for a 74/75 164E/TE?

  • FWIW: 164 workshop manuals for sale on I-roll FB site.

  • OK thanks, I'll look into the manual.

    Maybe I will try with more fuel. Fuel is definitely not coming through when cranking.

    I can't hear anything from the pump when turned on but my hearing is not the best. The parts car will have a spare fuel pump also. Guess I need to find out of I'm getting 12v to that point first.


    Thanks for the tips. I might try more fuel first then try to determine if power is getting to the fuel pump. Could it be a blocked fuel filter?

  • Usually the pump or pump relay will be cactus. Fresh filters are always a good thing too.

  • Right, I've found the fuel pump but not the relay. Do you know where that is located?

  • edited March 25

    The fuel pump relay should be one of the relays on the inner left guard. This is where the wiring diagram is helpful. I'll have a look in my 140 book in the morning. Hopefully the wiring colours are the same. IIRC there are 3 or 4 relays that look the same.

  • Ok, the book says 3 relays. 2 relays should look identical, but with a very subtle wiring difference. The fuel pump relay has 2 red wires on the one terminal as opposed to 1 red wire. This is the main incoming power supply for terminal 30/31. The outgoing wire to the pump is a white wire on terminal 87. The other 2 white wires activate the solenoid from the computer.

  • OK I did some investigation tonight and located the fuel pump relay based on the manual that came with TE parts car that I found.

    I swapped the fuel pump relay for the one in the TE and still had no fuel come through.


    I'm going to put 20 litres in and try again. Also the there seems to be separate fueses for the fuel pump shown on the diagram that I will also change.


    Of course there is nothing to say that the TE fuel pump relay isn't also knackered.

  • Have you got yourself a multimeter?

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